[copperpen]

Weter, on 26 August 2023 - 07:42 AM, said:

Sorry, mervin.
Manual tells us (timetsble concept chapter, introduction), that activity mode, inherited from msts, and timetable mode have dufferent classes for defining static/lost consists. So, lost consist is defined in act-file, while static consist is a special instance of tt train class, which has no task, but later can be picked up by other train.

Indeed. However, said static/loose consist should also be visible in the dispatchers/activity window as well as the timetable window for a similar reason. In a freeflow activity any loose consist can be collected by the player, therefore there is a need to see those loose/static consists. If the dispatcher window rework does not remove these from view, then that is OK.

[Weter]

Indeed loose consists - my fault.
And indeed, thats critical to be able to see them on "monitor" - i.e. said additional window, whatever it is called.
Rick, the edge of my wishes would be standalone 2d activity/timetable runner/vjewer.
Remember, msts ae did have such feature. Ihis could save a bunch of time in timetable composition/debugging work.

[rickloader]

Yes, Weter I had forgotten the MSTS activity viewer. But I don`t think you can alter the speed of timetable mode unless you keep the same prerun update interval steps ( 5 seconds). Chris and I experimented with different update intervals, and the timetable played differently. But imagine watching the map window playing the prerun which is currently invisible. You could see the timetable running at 5 second steps in game time, but executed as fast as your computer can run. I prerun 12 hours timetable in about 15 minutes . Wouldn`t that be useful time compression Weter?

[Weter]

First, msts editor did have time acceleration slider.
Second, i can mistake, being uncertain about prerun mechanism, but after game session is being fully loaded, we can get any time acceleration/deceleration, by using ctrl-alt-pgup/pgdown, or home keys (the latter is for resetting a normal speed at once)
But sure, watching prerun process will be more exciting, than even two progress bars.
Third, the result, mentioned by you, looks very close to mine, showing 24 hours-long action in 27 minutes, by using 5800-percent time acceleration.
Though, some trains occassionally bump dead ends, or run through consists, instead of coupling to them, so i have to slow down acceleration, in times of complex manouvers, then accelarate again.

I vote for optional 2-d viewer - to save time, being spent to 3d scenes rendering, loading and computing/updating, and also - more handy for seeing all the network at once, instead of mounting multiple free cameras in different places, setting them, by tracking to desired locations, then jumping between them, waiting for loading new tiles during minutes!
3d viewer is almost always redundant during activity debugging/testing sessions - it consumes way too much of our life's time.

[rickloader]

In my experience using time acceleration after loading just advances the player train. The AI trains do not always keep up, and bumping dead ends or running through consists is no use in testing a timetable. That is why I say the 5 second prerun interval must be kept.( Rob must have set it as the optimum).
I agree with you the 3d viewer is redundant, but be realistic, no one is going to make us a 2d timetable viewer. But now Looky has combined the map windows could it be used as a 2 D viewer during loading?
Why should we look at a loading screen during prerun when we could see OR running the timetable in 2D at accelerated 5 sec steps?

[Weter]

I'll try to answer, step by step:
As i understand it, time acceleration speeds up entire game session (it's clock), but not only player's train.
But i need to clarufy, that in case of timetabke's testing, when acceleration is being used, i only choose an observer train as a player's one: it stands on siding and it's path goes to the siding's dead end - for not to interfere any other trains. That's because, it's impossible to control actual train in such accelerated time speed: plus spoiled adhesion calculation (having delays), makes player train unabke to move.
Certainly, said two faults - bumping and poking (which happen occassionally, by the way) - are consequences of acceleration-caused mishandles of ai-controlled trains, so these are not timetable fsults, but things, making testing process less reliable, more faulty and harder.

2d viewer is not my idea originally: it was my dream, not formulated in words/terms, but then ive read on trello, that 2d viewer and real-time route editor are plans of ormt and hence - one of development's aims.
Real-time route editing is combination of game and editor, so you can "drive mow train along the route", fixing/modutying trackwork, planting/removing or shifting scenery objects, or working with trerrain, then - ride further.

You say "no one is going to make it for us", but we do get these windows with map already, they do work and are being developed and further improved currently, so it doesnt seem fantastic for me, to load game session without 3d viewer, but using only uotput to these map windows.
Would you tell us, why not, rick?! :)

I suppose, showdown of prerun would be better to turn on optionally, keeping opportunity to have loadscreen picture with two progress bars, as an alternative.
Thats because, such "action" can destroy concentration of player (as a train driver), distracting his attention before departure.

[rickloader]

I think we agree about the benefits of a 2d viewer, and that with a few more modifications this map viewer could do the job, and without the 3 d viewer.
There are many items on Trello, and we wil have a long wait for some of them to become reality.Why not see if the kind devs can adapt the map viewer we have for us ? I did not say "not" at all :)
.Rick

[Weter]

You are right, i think, about trello.
What related to track viewer, such development is actually in progress in the other orts branch: look for trackviewer-based activity editor thread here on et.
The only thing, i'm afraid there: "activity" doesnt mean "timetable"...
So lets bet on looky's work.

[rickloader]

U2023.08.27-1722 Thanks Looky for the update. I see the locomotives in Cyan colour, so that is working.
I believe in timetable mode you have assigned cyan for inactive locomotives. Preivously these inactive locos were shown as a dull muted colour. Maybe they do have a static tag in the code? (until they reactivate)
But what we mean by static consists are wagons or carriages without locomotives (no power unit). In your map viewer these are still invisible
These come about in timetable mode in 2 ways
1)trains that are placed in the world by the $static in the start time. They have names chosen from the timetable column heading
2) wagons (units) that are detached from trains. These are given a number by the sim like "SO113_00" The sim knows they are static items because they respond to /static modifiers . The sim also knows the original name and it might be good if it were possible to display this name.
I don`t run activity or multiplayer so perhaps we need a check for these modes.
Rick

[cjakeman]

Looky1173, on 26 August 2023 - 12:31 AM, said:

I've just pushed some code changes to include static consists in the Map window; they are to be expected in the next unstable release (after U2023.08.25-1822 2023-08-25 19:28:17). Please let me know if static consists do show up this time. They be coloured bright cyan.

Yes, I see them now when running the Timetable in Demo Model 1.



I would choose a grey colour, rather than cyan to indicate that they are inactive, but it's your choice as the developer.

Looky1173, on 26 August 2023 - 12:31 AM, said:

I have already added an experimental dark theme to the Map window, which can be toggled with Map customization > Rotate between themes. I will certainly make more themes in the future which will be softer on the eyes. What about a "solarized" theme?

Not seen that before. It looks a very interesting approach.