[Laci1959]

Quote

When using the torque converter then OR should use the DieselPowerTab to calculate the engine output and the ThrottleRPMTab to fix the engine rpm. The ideal way to represent the output of the torque converter stage(s) would be to use Tractive Force Curves, as you would with a diesel hydraulic transmission.

It worked, and it was ruined. That's why Locomotive was outraged. Although there were some faults because the engine speed (rpm) went down in 2nd gear.

Quote

When using the direct drive, fluid coupling or gears then OR should use the DieselTorqueTab to calculate the tractive force and the engine rpm would be related to the rail speed rather than the throttle position.

This can be good if you don’t overdo it like you do now. I have a two descriptions for the different GANZ motor cars, and in addition to speed, transmission is the other data available.
There is nothing about torque, I swear it is better guarded than gold in FORT KNOX.
Good luck for that.

[mozdonyos]

darwins, on 16 March 2022 - 11:37 AM, said:

During testing, I tried three different heritage trains to try to make sure that the old settings were not broken. These included automatic and manual transmissions, ORTS diesel engine blocks, motor cars with two engines and trains with two motor cars. No problems were encountered. There must be something different between the test trains that I chose and the trains that people are having problems with. I have attached eng and con files for the trains tested. Can I suggest that both Mozdonyos and Jean-Paul also give the eng and con files for the units they have had problems with and then perhaps Peter will be able to work out what is causing the problems.

DieselEngineType ( hydromechanic )

GearBoxNumberOfGears( 2 )
GearBoxDirectDriveGear ( 3 )
GearBoxMaxSpeedForGears( 45 66 )
GearBoxMaxTractiveForceForGears( 68kN 20kN )
GearBoxOverspeedPercentageForFailure( 107 )
GearBoxBackLoadForce( 97000 )
GearBoxCoastingForce( 97000 )
GearBoxUpGearProportion( 0.975 )
GearBoxDownGearProportion( 0.66 )
GearBoxOperation( automatic )
GearBoxEngineBraking( direct_drive )


I don’t use any of the new transmission codes because I have automatic (hydromechanical) vehicles.


It uses two of the traction, but does not decrease as the speed increases.


All due respect to the developers and thank you for your work.
But I think this should have been released so that our current developments would not be ruined.

With the copy and characteristics copied above, it was possible to model an ad-mechanical vehicle perfectly.

[steamer_ctn]

mozdonyos, on 21 March 2022 - 10:53 AM, said:

All due respect to the developers and thank you for your work.
But I think this should have been released so that our current developments would not be ruined.

It was released so that existing configurations should works as they did.

If this is not the case in your instance then I would need to investigate it further.

To do so I will need the full model (shape, ENG files, etc) and the CON file to test.

Can you please arrange to send them to me. You can do that through a PM.

Thanks

[Laci1959]

Hello.

The usual story. There is a program written with insufficient care that the content creator has put to his advantage. GearBoxMaxTractiveForceForGears has queued values. GearBoxMaxTractiveForceForGears has queued zero (0). It was not missing because it was an excellent replacement for ORTSTractionCharacteristics.
Now that it's gone, it doesn't work.
ORTSTractionCharacteristics contained a fictitious column between two real Throttle columns. When shifting, the engine speed Rpm dropped nicely to idle and then started to rise again. Just like in reality. Interestingly, he kept the values ​​given in ThrottleRPMTab in the first gear. Unfortunately, not in the second degree.
I have that nice motor train too, and I was surprised when it didn’t start. That’s when I started looking into what was causing the error. I had an easy time because I had previously asked here about the need for GearBoxMaxTractiveForceForGears as this data is not available. (A gearshift is usually specified.) If GearBoxMaxTractiveForceForGears contains any data, it no longer holds the values ​​specified in ORTSTractionCharacteristics.
This GearBoxMaxTractiveForceForGears (0kN 0kN) setting should be kept if ORTSTractionCharacteristics is followed.
@Darwins also mentioned this in post # 50, although GearBoxMaxTractiveForceForGears (0kN 0kN) was not described.

I think what has practically worked out should be kept, even if it goes against programming logic.

Sincerely, laci 1959

[Jean-Paul]

darwins, on 18 March 2022 - 07:41 AM, said:

Hi Jean Paul

Firstly, you are correct if you use DieselEngineType ( mechanical ) then the new parameters will not work properly if at all. You will only get MSTS performance. This is what I was testing to see if MSTS performance is still working as it used to. Both yourself and Laci suggested something was going wrong.


To use the new parameters instead of DieselEngineType ( mechanical ) you must use ORTSDieselTransmissionType ( Mechanic )

It is still a work in progress. So far Peter has succeeded to model three different types of clutch and two different types of gearbox. What definitely works so far is:

Locomotives with single engines and manual transmission

Three types of clutch - friction, fluid coupling or scoop coupling

Either with freewheel or without (which will give engine braking)

Type A gearbox used on engines like Hudswell Clarke shunting locos.

Type B gearbox used on engines like Hunslet shunting locos.

Work that is not yet completed for the new model includes automatic transmissions, locomotives and railcars with two engines, driving trailers for railcars and coupled railcars.

Type C gearbox used on British first generation dmu

and Type D gearbox used on Renault autorails


So there is still a long way to go with this project. Please be patient. It has been more than one year for Peter to get the code this far. There have been a lot of problems along the way because mechanical transmission is very different to electric transmission.

Hi, Darwins,
Just tested a Renault railcar, by adapting your R305 sample : it seems to work very well (vith a "D" type transmission). Unfortunately, I won't extend this improvement, because it doesn't work when units are associated in MU (very usual configuration in reality). It's a pity, because I'm sure that this very simple ability, present since the beginnings of MSTS, isn't very hard to restablish...
Cheers,
Jean-Paul

[steamer_ctn]

Laci1959, on 22 March 2022 - 12:21 AM, said:

The usual story. There is a program written with insufficient care that the content creator has put to his advantage. GearBoxMaxTractiveForceForGears has queued values. GearBoxMaxTractiveForceForGears has queued zero (0). It was not missing because it was an excellent replacement for ORTSTractionCharacteristics.
Now that it's gone, it doesn't work.
ORTSTractionCharacteristics contained a fictitious column between two real Throttle columns. When shifting, the engine speed Rpm dropped nicely to idle and then started to rise again. Just like in reality. Interestingly, he kept the values ​​given in ThrottleRPMTab in the first gear. Unfortunately, not in the second degree.
I have that nice motor train too, and I was surprised when it didn’t start. That’s when I started looking into what was causing the error. I had an easy time because I had previously asked here about the need for GearBoxMaxTractiveForceForGears as this data is not available.
..............................................................................

I think what has practically worked out should be kept, even if it goes against programming logic.

So is this a legacy model, ie it worked correctly in v1.4, but now doesn't work in the latest Unstable version?

If it is, then send me the full model, and CON file, and I will investigate it.

If it is a new model set up using the new ORTS parameters for DM locomotive, then I will look at it when next I do some more work on this code.

[Laci1959]

Hello.

Here is the link to the motor train:
https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

An engine parameter is set in the control car because the electric heating generator could be located there due to the axle load limitation. If it is confusing then it should be deleted and have a normal control car setting.

Sincerely, Laci 1959

[steamer_ctn]

Laci1959, on 24 March 2022 - 03:59 AM, said:

Here is the link to the motor train:

Thanks for that.

Can you confirm which CON file was working with v1.4, but is not working with the latest unstable version?

[Laci1959]

Hello.

MDa-3017_2Bx_Ax_Btx-025.con

I'm sorry, I forgot that. Respectively, it was my back intent to have such a motor train in his possession to inspect the control car. When the control car is at the front and the transmission must be operating at the rear.

Sincerely, Laci 1959

[steamer_ctn]

mozdonyos, on 21 March 2022 - 10:53 AM, said:

I don’t use any of the new transmission codes because I have automatic (hydromechanical) vehicles.

I have added a patch that hopefully will restore the traction curves for legacy models.

Please confirm that it is now working.