[ATSF3751]

Yes I agree I may have gone a little overboard with my original request and I do think Peter has a great base going for Smoke and Steam so far we just need to pin point the issue with the smoke leaving it's desired position once you pick up speed.

I also agree that MSTS did a great job when it came to smoke and I have actually been thinking of installing MSTS just to mess around with it and study the smoke a little bit. Maybe there is something we are missing that MSTS has that Open Rails does not when it comes to the coding and smoke.

I do think making a smoke out of Blender and importing it into the game would look much better then what we have currently if that is at all possible.

Brandon

[Jonatan]

But why, though? Like Copperpen said MSTS only used one sprite to demonstratively good effect. It's not the sprite and smoke effect itself that's the problem, it's how it's behaving that needs refinement.

I don't know what benefits the Blender idea would have over our current system, sounds to me like it requires alot of effort for a non-guaranteed reward.

I apprechiate your enthusiasm, if you could code I'm sure you'd have this feature implemented as a patch very soon.

[Traindude]

Thinking out loud here, but one improvement would be to change the emission rate with vehicle speed.

In my demonstration of the smoking caboose which I posted on page 2 of this thread (both WagonSmokeFX BTW), I counted the emissions at about 4 particles per second. Perhaps this can be increased to say, 8 particles per second at 15 MPH, and 16 at 30 MPH. (These are all just rough approximations at this point).

On the Locomotive Info page of the extended HUD, there's a readout for Back Pressure. Perhaps we can use this variable to drive the smoke and steam emissions. (Example: higher back pressure = greater CylinderSteamExhaustFX velocity.)

Another thing I'd like to eventually see is cast shadows for smoke and steam emissions. IRL, smoke and steam, depending on its density, will cast shadows on the ground and other objects. I'm not sure if everyone's GPU's have the computing power for that, though. (My current GPU likely does not!)

[copperpen]

The idea of using back pressure is a pretty good solution for when the locomotive is moving, but there is also a draft element when it is not moving. Without a draft there is no fire and no transfer of heat through the tubes. I think that right now the fire model only produces heat with no draft element and that heat is transferred to the boiler model to make steam. If a draft element can be added along with a proper firing module we will have a much more flexible and realistic model to work with. The back pressure forms the exhaust which in turn increases the draft on the fire which then makes more heat. With the back pressure it should be possible to vary the height/velocity of the emissions by adjusting the driving controls. Maximum throttle and cutoff should produce the maximum exhaust speed.

[darwins]

There is a whole lot that could be done with steam and smoke. This has been frequently discussed. I don't think we have anyone with the skills and interest to code most of that at the moment. Probably the idea of increasing particle emission rate with speed would be the best we can achieve for now.

[copperpen]

I think we can do better if we use the cylinder backpressure instead of speed to drive the smoke steam. There is also a need to work out how to depict the stack effect when the engine is not moving. There is a steady draft from the firebox to the smokebox even when the throttle is closed. Those pathetic puffs we have right now do not look right by a long country mile.

[Laci1959]

Quote

Thinking out loud here, but one improvement would be to change the emission rate with vehicle speed.

Hello.

How would that work? The faster the train goes, the bigger the smoke because the draft is bigger? Or the faster the train moves, the smaller the smoke because it thins out?
Or a translation error?

Sincerely, Laci1959

[Weter]

Yes, this sounds closer to truth.
Hello, Laci.
Instead of stretching gaps between square smoke particles, the smoke itself is stretched - the real one.
Obviously, in game stretched rectangles (always horizontal) will look much clumsier, than even squares, separated by longer gaps, we see now.

[Jonatan]

I would agree that with steam exhaust pressure increasing, the force of smoke and steam ejection through the stack pushes the plume higher. I will also argue that steam locomotive smoke is neither a constant stream nor individual puffs. It is, depending on circumstance, an infinately variable combination of the two. I've been around them long enough to know this first hand.

Depending on the amount of carbon availible to burn and the air to burn it, there will be anything from a clear heat haze to a rolling eruption of black smoke. Forced plume ejection only happens with steam exhaust from the cylinders or appliances but as opposed to how Peter have tried to do, it does NOT result in white steam puffs coming out separate from the drifting smoke plume, it blends togeather and lifts the combustion products with it.

Smoke physics is such a complex and dynamic thing that I doubt any simulator could recreate it perfectly. There's a million and one factors ranging from wind conditions, air humidity and density to weight of individual particles that determine how the smoke forms, behaves and moves. Even temperature and elevation affects smoke behavior!

Additionaly, all these factors apply to diesel exhaust as well.

[ATSF3751]

Here are a few of my thoughts. I first do not see anything else happening with smoke and steam any time soon as no one seems interested or capable of doing the coding for it. However I do like the idea of having it be controlled by the back pressure instead of how it is controlled currently. As stated earlier we also need to include draft, wind and the way the locomotive is being fired as well.

Now I do know that Steam and Diesel exhaust is different and behave differently but in some respects they act the same and maybe it would be easier to work with diesel exhaust first and then move onto steam exhaust. May be something to consider in the future as both of them need to be looked at and reworked.

Now you are correct that maybe we do not need multiple types of smoke but the coding sure needs to be completely redone!

Brandon