[scottb613]

Hi Folks,

Anyone who's spent any time trying to shuffle cars or do any shunting/switching knows our current tools are a bit cumbersome and less than ideal.

I've given this some thought while switching and would like to propose the following to start a discussion.

Given: Switching now comprises having to utilize three different screens to get all the information necessary for said operation.

• Train Operations - to move through the train - select car for [Car Operations] - and uncouple cars.
  
• Car Operations - to [Toggle Handbrake] [Toggle Brake Hose] [Toggle Front Angle Cock] [Toggle Rear Angle Cock] [Toggle Bleed Off Valve]
  
• [Ctrl F5] Hud - to get status of handbrakes and connections.

Note: I've omitted - for now - the locomotive functions on the Car Operations window - which we can consider later.







In the image above I just illustrated what the Train Operations window looks like now - with my proposed mods below. The legend is only for reference - here - and not part of the active window element.

Old Condition - Juggling the three screens while attempting to find the correct cars is difficult. Status messages are "spammed" to the screen and soon vanish. Remembering which cars are in which state makes it tough. In my humble opinion - the [Ctrl F5] HUD's are only for debugging and shouldn't be used for normal operation.

New Condition - I'd like to see the 3 aforementioned screens consolidated in a single new - interactive - Train Operations window. Vertical scrolling I think is more natural. A quick scroll through your train gives you the complete status. Spamming messages no longer required as car state is always present and graphically represented. I tried to keep the symbology as simple as possible for coding sake.

New Train Operations

• All locomotives and tenders should be indicated in green.
  
• A click on the car of interest should switch to external camera view indexed to the same car.
  
• Handbrakes, Brake Hose, Angle Cocks, Coupler, Bleed Off can all be set via a simple click on the respective icon.
  
• Indications are updated in real time.
  
• Only exceptions to normal running state are actively indicated - so when a train is ready to run - indicators are off.

Further down the road - it might be nice to add a new variable to the WAG files to indicate class of car and load status. If incorporated - it would make it easier when looking through long lists of cars to find the one you're after. It might prove useful elsewhere as well.

Example:

• BL = Boxcar Loaded
  
• BE = Boxcar Empty
  
• HL = Hopper Loaded
  
• GE = Gondola Empty

Anyway - just a start of a discussion - please add your thoughts as you see fit.

Then all we need is a developer - - - Mauricio - - - you still around?
:)

Regards,
Scott

[darwins]

Good idea.

[steved]

timmuir, on 21 April 2023 - 11:46 AM, said:

Runaway!

And the switch is closed!!

RunActivity32 2023-04-21 12-32-41.jpg

Better identification of cars would be nice.
If you're standing in the dark in the rain 2/3rds of the way back from the front of the train you aren't going to know if you are looking at the 37th or the 47th car.
The only thing you will be able to use for id is the car number. Maybe use that instead of the car's position in the train.
Sort of like real life.

Randy

To have all of this on a second or third screen would be cool too. Maintain the immersion.
Also if clicking on the car would highlight it on the list.

[pschlik]

I like the concept, this would make switching quite a bit more fluid. Fewer clicks, less reading, and more pictures-all of that is good UI design that we just don't have right now.

[Genma Saotome]

There is a lot that could be added to help with this situation.

• Add car identification to the .wag files. In North America that would be owner's initials and car number (e.g., NP 12345). I don't know about other countries, perhaps car number is all that would be needed. Add that to the sprite text display as well as the suggested display, above.
  
• We need EmptyCarMass() along with LadingMass() as basic .wag data. The software can add the two together to get Mass() for use in physics. When you have LadingMass(0) the car is empty and can be marked is a display as such.
  
• The suggested display, above, should include whether the brake retainer has been turned up or not.
  
• Beating a silent drum I'll note my camera sets proposal included the idea of a Brakeman set that included an inside caboose and locomotive cameras as well as on the ground roaming and a wished for climbing car ladders and walking the running board.

I'm sure there could be more good ideas.

The real problem is none of this will occur w/o having a programmer also interested in this (or one kind enough to indulge the request).

[scottb613]

Hi Folks,

Thanks for your insights.

Yeah - at least it's the start of a plan - if it sparks any interest with someone who can code.

Mauricio was the HUD guy but I haven't seen him post in ages.

Regards,
Scott

[Aldarion]

Genma Saotome, on 24 April 2023 - 09:47 AM, said:

I don't know about other countries, perhaps car number is all that would be needed.

In europe, clearly the entire UIC number is probably the best solution. This would also mean it could be feasable to create an auto-numbering system...

[Weter]

Hi, Scott.

Quote

and uncouple cars

If You somehow missed that: it's possible to click on the couple of interest on train in game, holding specially defined key (as we throw switches with Alt+left mouse klick) - for uncoupling it.

[Traindude]

I have a potential addition idea:

If (and when) ORTS ever recognizes permanent "Bar" couplings, then we can put one of the coupler symbols inside a red circle with a slash through it, signifying that coupler will not operate.

[Siebren]

Hello Scott,

Nice proposal. And I do agree the F5 HUD is only for debugging. However seen via the webserver it is more acceptable than via the main window. And scrollable.

I do not yet see a programmer interested in this proposal. And for me this is too complicated coding wise. What I could code is the following proposal:

Keep the Train Operations and Car Operations Menus as they are now.

But make the lines that are of no use gray and unclickable, for instance the Toggle Handbrake when no handbrake available. And the brake hose for the first locomotive.

And I would change the lines to actions instead of toggle. So that you know what you are doing when you click. This is what a railway employee in the real world would also see. No need for the F5 HUD anymore:

Toggle Handbrake to set / Toggle Handbrake to off
Toggle Brake Hose to connected / Toggle Brake Hose to unconnected
Open Front Angle Cock / Close Front Angle Cock
Open Front Angle Cock / Close Rear Angle Cock
Open Front Bleed Off Value / Close Rear Bleed Off Value

I do not intend to change the rest of the lines in the Car Operation Menu.

regards, Siebren.

this is how it would look like, open/close still to be done: