[Weter]

Thanks, Phillip.
This

Quote

(Why full service pressure drop of 0? Well, the maximum loco brake pressure is defined as the [Max Pressure - Full Service Pressure Drop]. So if I want a maximum pressure of 45, I set the max pressure to 45 and the drop in pressure to 0.)
(And why no other tokens? As far as I can see, none of the tokens other than Max Pressure and Full Service Pressure Drop affect engine brakes in Open Rails, all the other stuff is nonsense.)

Is essential note!

[darwins]

Thanks for that.

I now have another problem. As you have said many of the lines make no difference to performance.

The engine brake seems to have a fixed application rate of 3.0 psi/s - whatever I try it takes 15 s to change from BC 0 psi to BC 45 psi

This appears to be hard coded and can not be changed.

adding for example

EngineBrakesControllerMaxApplicationRate( 10.0psi/s )

makes no difference

The engine contoller in this case is:

Comment ( Based on Westinghouse No 9 Drivers brake valve with double check valve )
Brake_Engine ( 0 1 0.1 0.5
NumNotches ( 3
Notch ( 0.0 0 EngineBrakesControllerReleaseStart ORTSLabel ( "Running" ) )
Notch ( 0.5 0 EngineBrakesControllerHoldLappedStart ORTSLabel ( "Lap" ) )
Notch ( 1.0 0 EngineBrakesControllerApplyStart ORTSLabel ( "Apply" ) ) ) )

Chaning ApplyStart with FullServiceStart or EmergencyStart does not change this.

I tried another Engine Brake Controler that was supposed to offer two different application rates:

EngineBrakesControllerMaxApplicationRate( 10.0psi/s )
EngineBrakesControllerEmergencyApplicationRate( 40.0psi/s )

similarly makes no difference

Brake_Engine ( 0 1 0.1 0.2
NumNotches ( 4
Comment ( 5 Notches - RELEASE - Releases Locomotive Brakes but not train brakes )
Notch ( 0.0 0 EngineBrakesControllerReleaseStart ORTSLabel ( "Running" ) )
Notch ( 0.5 0 EngineBrakesControllerHoldLappedStart ORTSLabel ( "Lap" ) )
Notch ( 0.7 0 EngineBrakesControllerFullServiceStart ORTSLabel ( "Slow Application" ) )
Notch ( 1.0 0 EngineBrakesControllerEmergencyStart ORTSLabel ( "Fast Application" ) ) ) )

I found the application rates were the same as above regardless of the brake controller.

The time of 15s to reach maximum brake cylinder pressure is way beyond the standards required in UK or UIC countries.

The maximum time for an independent brake to reach maximum pressure in a full service application should be 4.0s

Would it be possible to make

EngineBrakesControllerMaxApplicationRate( x ) and EngineBrakesControllerEmergencyApplicationRate( y )
and also the release rate

functional in Open Rails?

[Weter]

Quote

Chaning ApplyStart with FullServiceStart or EmergencyStart does not change this.

use "dummy"

there are some parameters, named about ORTSindependent(engine?)BrakeApplication/ReleaseRate too.

[pschlik]

darwins, on 06 April 2024 - 12:23 PM, said:

SNIP

I don't think the engine brakes controller application/release rate does all that much. What you want to use are ORTSEngineBrakeApplicationRate and ORTSEngineBrakeReleaseRate.

[darwins]

Thnaks.

Yes the ORTS parameters do indeed make a difference, but I think ORTSEngineBrakeApplicationRate is not working as it should

from experiment the numbers (for both application and release) seem to need to be approximately 2 times greater than the desired rate of change of pressure of the brake cylinder.


Using air brakes ORTSEngineBrakeApplicationRate only seems to work with

EngineBrakesControllerEmergencyStart

Dummy


Using air brakes the following brake tokens do not seem to be influenced by ORTSEngineBrakeApplicationRate

EngineBrakesControllerFullServiceStart

EngineBrakesControllerApplyStart

EngineBrakesControllerContinuousServiceStart


With air brakes the token

EngineBrakesControllerBrakeNotchStart

does not seem to function at all, so I presume this token is only for steam brakes.


I will do some more tests later with vacuum brakes, steam brakes and manual brakes.


The other matter with air brakes was to have an engine brakes controller with two different application rates as per Westinghouse A-1, 5-ET, 6-ET and 7-EL
for example:

Brake_Engine ( 0 1 0.1 0.2
NumNotches ( 5 
 Notch ( 0.0  0 EngineBrakesControllerBailOffStart ORTSLabel ( "Release" ) )
 Notch ( 0.2  0 EngineBrakesControllerReleaseStart ORTSLabel ( "Running" ) )
 Notch ( 0.5  0 EngineBrakesControllerHoldLappedStart ORTSLabel ( "Lap" ) )
 Notch ( 0.7  0 EngineBrakesControllerFullServiceStart  ORTSLabel ( "Slow Application" ) )
 Notch ( 1.0  0 EngineBrakesControllerEmergencyStart ORTSLabel ( "Fast Application" ) ) ) )

At the moment this works because FullService operates at the default rate and Emergency operates at the ORTSEngineBrakeApplicationRate.
Is this the best way of doing this into the future?

[Weter]

Hello.
is token EngineBrakesControllerBailOffStart functional already?
I'd try it then with 254 valve...
I wish it was for "sprung"/"while pressed" I-st position, with spring return of handle to II-st (default, running with setting BC pressure equal to train brake setting, or less - after partial bailoff), as soon, as "[" button is released/depressed.

[darwins]

Yes. EngineBrakesControllerBailOffStart is working, but for steam locomotives it only seems to work on the locomotive and not on the tender.

Sprung or While Pressed brake positions would be ideal for Bail Off or Overcharge notches.
One of the coders did try to make them work, but it proved too difficult to get them to work with both the keyboard and the mouse.

[Weter]

Good news - I have to try it.

[darwins]

This is the situation with brake systems other than air train brake with air locomotive brake.


1. Independent Brake (Steam Brake) with Automatic Vacuum Brake

The system still functions as it should with max brake cylinder pressure approximately equal to actual boiler pressure.

Speed of application and release is governed by EngineBrakesControllerMaxApplicationRate and EngineBrakesControllerMaxReleaseRate (not by new ORTS parameters)


2. Independent Brake (Steam Brake) with Automatic Air Brake

The maximum brake cylinder pressure no longer increases to approximately equal to actual boiler pressure.

It does not seem possible to change the rate of application and release from the default rates.


3. Independent Brake (Steam Brake) with no train brakes (Manual Braking)

The system still functions as it should with max brake cylinder pressure approximately equal to actual boiler pressure.

Speed of application and release is governed by EngineBrakesControllerMaxApplicationRate and EngineBrakesControllerMaxReleaseRate (not by new ORTS parameters)


4. Independent Brake (Vacuum Brake pretending to be Direct Air Brake) with Automatic Vacuum Brake

The system still functions as in previous OR versions with the brake cylinder pressure behaving as a vacuum brake would. (Conversion to air brake units is a workaround in cvf file.)

Speed of application and release is governed by EngineBrakesControllerMaxApplicationRate and EngineBrakesControllerMaxReleaseRate (not by new ORTS parameters)


5. Independent Brake (Direct Air Brake) with no train brakes (Manual Braking)

The system still functions as in previous OR versions with the brake force showing in the force extended HuD, but no brake cylinder pressure visible in HuD or cvf.

It does not seem possible to change the rate of application and release.

[Traindude]

I though I'd share another proposal/document, this time analyzing various models of Westinghouse steam locomotive air compressor governors, and suggestions for implementing them for future use in ORTS.

Attached File(s)

•  ortssteamcompgov.pdf (676.89K)
  Number of downloads: 14