[Csantucci]

Combinations tested are the ones that are most used in practice, accordingly to my knowledge, that is:
TrainBrakeCommandHasPriorityOverCruiseControl (True)
TrainBrakeCommandHasPriorityOverAcceleratingCruiseControl (True) : the Cruise control action is fully inhibited when there is a manual train braking.


TrainBrakeCommandHasPriorityOverCruiseControl (False)
TrainBrakeCommandHasPriorityOverAcceleratingCruiseControl (True) : Cruise control generating tractive effort is inhibited when there is a manual train braking; cruise control activating dynamic braking is not inhibited.

The combination you are testing, that is at one side a manual train braking action and at the other side the cruise control trying to accelerate (that is generating forces in opposite directions) has not been tested, because I wonder if it is of practical use. However I'll have a test.

[cesarbl]

Quote

The combination you are testing, that is at one side a manual train braking action and at the other side the cruise control trying to accelerate (that is generating forces in opposite directions) has not been tested, because I wonder if it is of practical use. However I'll have a test.

I assume the use case is starting with brakes applied when climbing a hill. For some systems CC applies engine or train brakes automatically when starting to prevent a reverse movement.

The traction interlocking system has something to say here too. If DoesBrakeCutPower is active, you cannot apply traction when brakes are active, either in Auto or Manual mode.

[Csantucci]

IMHO starting uphill is a particular case and should be handled in a particular way. César, in the case you mention it's the CC itself that applies brakes at startup, so everything is under its control. What I doubt is that there is a case where the CC generates traction while the train driver brakes, so none of the two (CC and train driver) have full control of opposite forces.
I've found how to modify the code to allow train braking and CC traction to operate at the same time, but I really doubt that this is a wise modification.

[pschlik]

I'm also not sure if there's any system that actually allows power braking, but I thought it would be an interesting possibility introduced by the new options.

[ATW]

CC is different then T-O (Trip-Optimizer) but I have been on some freights where T-O commanded to set air to its calculations to ballance down grade while it was still in Throttle but not exceeding Run 4 and learned it was when system already knows Dynamics on EMD leader is cutout or defective.

But as rule changes so do software changes when handling in certain conditions or something has happened for company to require software updates to clear problems or glitches. Updates now these days where I work now want the engineer to be responsible in certain areas or if T-O can't handle it and panicks on certain conditions automaticly throws on operator to takeover manually.

So away from the T-O TCS route and fuel smart systems, what will ORTS do in CC when there are no dynamics to control target speed?

[pschlik]

ATW, on 01 June 2023 - 01:58 PM, said:

CC is different then T-O (Trip-Optimizer) but I have been on some freights where T-O commanded to set air to its calculations to ballance down grade while it was still in Throttle but not exceeding Run 4 and learned it was when system already knows Dynamics on EMD leader is cutout or defective.

But as rule changes so do software changes when handling in certain conditions or something has happened for company to require software updates to clear problems or glitches. Updates now these days where I work now want the engineer to be responsible in certain areas or if T-O can't handle it and panicks on certain conditions automaticly throws on operator to takeover manually.

So away from the T-O TCS route and fuel smart systems, what will ORTS do in CC when there are no dynamics to control target speed?

Interesting! TO and LEADER are both hard to find operational details about so my googling revealed nothing about the systems allowing or disallowing stretch braking. Makes sense that they would only use it if dynamic brakes were inoperative.

Currently, if dynamic brakes are unavailable and the train brake applied manually, all combinations of CC settings will result in the CC just doing nothing, even if that means undershooting the target speed. So, if TrainBrakeCommandHasPriorityOverCruiseControl ( False ) is set and TrainBrakeCommandHasPriorityOverAcceleratingCruiseControl ( False ) is set, it would be nice if the CC system would still apply throttle as needed with the train brakes applied to simulate such a situation more accurately. If we want to get very detailed, a setting like "MaxForceWithBrakeApplied ( 50 )" could be added to limit the max force % when the train brakes are applied.

[ATW]

Yea T-O Leader has some wierd operational details and it's faults experienced not written have been reported or changed a number of times. One of its common faults is it only feels its controlling the leader or controlling DPU not knowing trail units and makes its calculations with accelerometer instead of projected speed like judgments and during dynamic braking asks the most favors to the operator on how much pounds of air deduction to make and when to release.

But T-O is down the road and has a number of additional needed parameters to be effective as its judged by route and limits ahead or behind. It's EMS fuel program has special coding too and I already try one of them in CC even though I have to make changes after a given speed manually once speed is reached or exceeded.

[gpz]

Releasing brakes takes a non-negligible time, so setting the brakes to release position and then switching on CC might give the desired effect, doesn't it?

[Csantucci]

gpz, on 01 June 2023 - 08:37 PM, said:

Releasing brakes takes a non-negligible time, so setting the brakes to release position and then switching on CC might give the desired effect, doesn't it?

As of now CC doesn't generate traction if

(Locomotive.TrainBrakeController.MaxPressurePSI - Locomotive.BrakeSystem.BrakeLine1PressurePSI > 1 ||
                    Locomotive.Train.BrakeLine4 > 0)

[Csantucci]

ATW, on 01 June 2023 - 01:58 PM, said:

So away from the T-O TCS route and fuel smart systems, what will ORTS do in CC when there are no dynamics to control target speed?

If a locomotive type has no dynamic brakes, the CC will use the train brake for braking.