[James Ross]

Csantucci, on 16 October 2021 - 09:47 AM, said:

I believe that reserving the Alt key only for debug operations seriously restricts the key combinations available for new commands.

Yes, the point is to reserve a decent number of shortcuts for debugging tools (including debugging for content creators). This is not new, either (that post is from Jan 2011, further back that even I was expecting!)

But the most important thing is to make sure we're discussing new keyboard shortcuts and agreeing them, rather than having everyone pick their own all the time :)

Csantucci, on 16 October 2021 - 09:47 AM, said:

Why did I use that key combination? The A key, alone or in combination with modifier keys, is mainly used to reduce or move to zero traction related entities (throttle, and force and set speed in Cruise Control). So I selected that key combination, because other combinations using the A key are already used. So I'm a bit unhappy in changing the key combination, using a different main key.

What are the other cruise control commands and their proposed shortcuts? With a complete list we can actually see what is needed and discuss whether Alt + A is good for this particular case or not.

[Laci1959]

Quote

What are the other cruise control commands and their proposed shortcuts? With a complete list we can actually see what is needed and discuss whether Alt + A is good for this particular case or not.

Wouldn't it have been better to use the keyboard shortcuts of the original Pre Alpha version? Or Icik's version commands?
I'm just thinking out loud.

[Csantucci]

Hi James,
I'm not against that some Alt combinations should be reserved for debugging; I am perplex if all Alt combinations are reserved for debugging.

The list of CC keyboard commands, as heired from Jindrich in ORNYMG, can be found in this http://www.interazio..._Parameters.xls spreadsheet, within sheet "Keyboard Commands". As of now I only modified one of them, which clashed with a camera command, and added the one we are discussing, also because the feature is now only in ORNYMG. I'm however in favour of finding a keyboard layout which is compatible with the official OR, also in view of a possible merging of the feature in the official OR releases (if a heavy rewriting is not requested). However I'd really prefer that at least the first 6 keyboard commands (together with the last one we are discussing) remain as they are.
I have already warned users that commands ControlSelectSpeednn could be deleted in the future, as they eat many key combinations.
You might be interested in having a look also at the other sheets of the spreadsheet.

[James Ross]

Csantucci, on 01 November 2021 - 08:23 AM, said:

I'm not against that some Alt combinations should be reserved for debugging; I am perplex if all Alt combinations are reserved for debugging.

As far as I'm aware, it's always been all Alt combinations, but it is not a strict rule. It is a guideline. We have a fair number of existing non-debug commands using Alt - some probably could have been chosen better, but some didn't really have any choice

The key thing I am looking for is this: that you have spent considerable time trying to find good keyboard commands, which includes trying not to use Alt

If you have spent considerable time on the keyboard commands, that's great, we'll allow your choices :)

Csantucci, on 01 November 2021 - 08:23 AM, said:

The list of CC keyboard commands, as heired from Jindrich in ORNYMG, can be found in this http://www.interazio..._Parameters.xls spreadsheet, within sheet "Keyboard Commands". As of now I only modified one of them, which clashed with a camera command, and added the one we are discussing, also because the feature is now only in ORNYMG. I'm however in favour of finding a keyboard layout which is compatible with the official OR, also in view of a possible merging of the feature in the official OR releases (if a heavy rewriting is not requested). However I'd really prefer that at least the first 6 keyboard commands (together with the last one we are discussing) remain as they are.
I have already warned users that commands ControlSelectSpeednn could be deleted in the future, as they eat many key combinations.
You might be interested in having a look also at the other sheets of the spreadsheet.

Thanks for the link, that's also a lot of cab view controls!

I hope it is clear that cab view controls, sound triggers, and keyboard commands are very hard (if not impossible) to remove or change in the future, so please make sure there has been a thorough discussion of each and that they are all required

Unfortunately, I've spotted another clash: Control Throttle Zero (Control + A) :(

Playing devil's advocate, since there's two combinations of W/S still available, why would you dislike this combination?

• Cruise control mode - Control+Shift+W/S
  
• Regulator mode - Control+W/S
  
• Regulator acceleration - Shift+W/S
  
• Regulator speed - Shift+D/A
  
• Regulator zero speed - Control+Shift+A

[Weter]

Carlo, That's mid-70 design of cruise-control, by the way:
http://www.elvastower.com/forums/uploads/monthly_11_2021/post-11269-0-93368700-1636237729_thumb.jpg
there are 15 pre-set speed buttons, as i said the year back.
Also note, that throttle setting is selected with that large +/- keys. Reverser is a switch at the left; joystick is a DB control.

[Csantucci]

Weter,
thanks for the picture, I see your point.

James,
I'm very sorry I saw only today your post, and only because there was a new post by Weter in the thread.
Re the selection of the keys: while I spent time to select the Alt-Shift-A key combination, I took Jindrich's settings for the other ones (except in a case, as I already mentioned). I must say, however, that I was quite comfortable with the 6 first keyboard commands, which are the most used, and didn't get complaints about the key selection; there is also a coherence in the choice.
I overlooked the Ctrl-A clash, because AFAIK it's a command that isn't used up to now for the content that has been developed for the ORNYMG cruise control implementations, and so I agree modifying the key assignment for ControlCruiseControlModeDecrease and ControlCruiseControlModeIncrease to Control+Shift+W/S, as you suggest.
For the other 2 key pairs and single key that you propose to change, for sure your proposal is coherent too; I see an advantage in it, that is that Regulator acceleration is obtained only with two keys pressed instead of three (and it is a very used couple of commands), and you will see the other advantage (no use of Alt-key); I see as disadvantages that the actual keystroke set is now used since some time with no problems and has also been documented for the equipped trainsets, and (minor issue), that now Regulator Acceleration is linked with the D/A keys, like the throttle commands, and in frequent CC settings the throttle lever is used to control als the Regulator Acceleration when in Auto CC, so it is more intuitive.
So I am a bit reluctant to proceed with the change for regulator mode, regulator acceleration and regulator zero speed. If you see and declare significant advantages for your proposal in addition to the removed use of the Alt key, I would proceed; else I'd prefer leaving things as they are.

[Csantucci]

In ORNYMG 110 key assignment for ControlCruiseControlModeIncrease and ControlCruiseControlModeDecrease has been modified to Control+Shift+W/S, as suggested by James.

[Csantucci]

In ORNYMG 111 support has been added to have simultaneous CC controlled dynamic and air braking. Description can be found here http://www.interazio...ng-the-eng-file . The updated parameter list for the .eng file can as always be found here http://www.interazio..._Parameters.xls .
For completenes it must be said that, while in my own test bed the feature works as it should, a person who tried the same configuration often gets an incorrect behaviour.

[Csantucci]

In ORNYMG 112 support has been added or fixed for:
- locos with throttle used as speed selector
- option to start game in auto mode
- option for neutral position at zero throttle
- cruise control for locomotives with no dynamic brake (train brake is used).

As always, updated info can be found at the two links of the previous post.

[Csantucci]

In ORNYMG 114 an option (MinimumSpeedForCCEffect) has been added to define a minimum speed below which the CC is ineffective.