[ATSF3751]

Hey everyone.

So this was brought up to my attention from Peter when it comes to the PRR T1 locomotive and chuffing sounds. The chuffing sounds are either playing too fast, skipping or playing in the wrong order/sequence. Looking further into the matter the T1 is not the only one having issues but many of my steam locomotives that I run are. I believe this has to do with the coding in Open Rails and not the SMS files themselves as it just recently popped up in the last few updates.

I have gone though the PRR T1 SMS files and all seems to be correct and nothing has changed. Peter noticed it after the locomotive started sounding like a airplane instead of a steam locomotive. All seems normal when you first start when you open the throttle but as soon as you close the throttle and open it back up is when you start having issues. I did just test my Milwaukee Road 261 4-8-4 and everything appears to be working as it should but for some reason the PRR T1 is still having issues. Could it be because there is a sound set for each set of drivers in the same SMS file and Open Rails is getting confused as to what sounds to play when?

When we created the SMS files we did not have this issue until just recently.

I just wanted to bring it up to everyone's attention and see if we can't get it resolved.

Brandon

[ATSF3751]

After doing some testing, changing out the Sound files to something I know works and doing multiple takes of it I have discovered something and not sure if it has to do with the SMS file or Open Rails its self. I have redone the SMS file for the T1 with my sound set of my Milwaukee Road 261.

The test I did was to have just the ONE set of sounds in the SMS like you normally would have and Everything runs completely fine. I then proceded to add that SECOND set of Chuffing sounds for the rear set of drivers and that is when I started having issues.

I am not sure at this point if Open Rails is not able to distinguish between Variable1 and Variable2.

I had the same effects as before on the T1 with the new sounds from my Milwaukee Road 261 steam locomotive and it didn't matter what version of Open Rails I used it still happened. My assumption is Open Rails may be getting confused on when to play the sounds and at what time and speed as I have both sets of sounds exactly the same and the ONLY DIFFERENCE is the Variable1 and Variable2.

It seems to get confused on the timing the sounds should play, the speed as to what to play them at and also seems to skip at times as well because I am having issues in all of those areas.

My guess would be we only just recently discovered it because the T1 is really the very first locomotive to have two chuffing sound sets in one SMS File as everything before it would have 2 individual SMS Files. One for the front set of drivers and one for the rear set of drivers. This was also due to articulated locomotives being two separate locomotives and not a single piece like the T1 is.

So it is possible that this has always been an issue and has never been discovered until now. Just wanted to give you guys an update and see if anyone else is having the same issue when using the T1.

Brandon

[slipperman]

Hi Brandon,
Is the PRR T1 and its troublesome sound set available for download anywhere, please?

I ask so that (a) we can hear what you and Peter can hear and ( b ) one of us MIGHT be able to offer a solution, assuming it's not a problem within Open Rails!

I've checked a couple of T1s from trainsim.com but they use the default Flying Scotsman and Goldorf 380 sounds. Neither uses Variable2, probably because, according to the Steam4Me tutorial, it doesn't work properly in MSTS!!

Cheers,
Ged

[ATSF3751]

yes it is available on Peter's website at Coals to New Castle. It would sure be nice to have more people testing the locomotive out and try to figure out an answer as to what is going on because if we want to do one piece locomotives with two different sound sets this is the way it should be set up. This would go for articulated locomotives as well eventually if we wanted to build it all in one locomotive instead of two separate parts.

Brandon

Here is the link https://www.coalston.../physics/stock/

[slipperman]

Hi Brandon,
Many thanks for the link :)

Ged

[ATSF3751]

You are very welcome! Thank you for helping to look into the issue and testing the engine out.

Brandon

[slipperman]

Hi Brandon,
In my initial tests, the loco sounds like an airliner, as you said!

For the Slow 1 and Slow 2 streams, I completely removed the Frequency Curve section and, to me, it sounds better, BUT on starting from rest, the sounds are 'juddery', if you know what I mean.
I believe this is because the T1 doesn't move smoothly, especially when coupled to the supplied consist.

For my next test, I used the T1Eng.sms file with the default Flying Scotsman, running under Open Rails. This was just a light engine and moves quite smoothly from rest, although the initial sounds weren't as 'smooth' as I'd have liked, they weren't bad. I think the reason may be that the value in "Variable1_Inc_Past 0.1" might need adjusting.

For the above T1 and Flying Scotsman tests, I disabled calling the cab sounds.

Cheers,
Ged

[ATSF3751]

Thank you for taking a good look at it. Yeah I was afraid that we may not be able to use both values in one SMS File.

Brandon

[slipperman]

Hi Brandon,
It needs a lot more testing!!

I don't know a lot about the sound system but wondered why half the triggers in each exhaust stream contained a negative speed value. Is it for when the loco is travelling in reverse? If so, I'm pretty sure they are not necessary. The default sounds for the MSTS Flying Scotsman and Goldorf 380 do not contain such entries.

In an additional test I carried out on the T1, I removed the negative-valued triggers in each front exhaust stream and they still played whichever direction the loco was travelling.

Cheers,
Ged

[copperpen]

If OR is unable to distinguish between variable1 and variable2 someone goofed with the coding. I can say with some degree of certainty that OR does distinguish between the two. Variable1 with the frequency curve provides the chuff rate and variable2 with the volume curve will make the stream louder or softer depending on how the curve is set up.

I am with Ged on negative values for either speed controlled or variable 2 controlled exhaust streams. They add un-needed complexity. I am not a great fan of splitting exhaust streams into many small segments either. One stream for forwards and one stream for reverse for each wheelset, (K.I.S.S.). Another thing I see is that each segment has its own frequency curve and none of them fit sequentially into a proper curve.


Many years ago Stewart Williamson made 2 generic steam sound sets, 2 cylinder and 3 cylinder for MSTS. They only used one set of wav files, but came four basic styles for varying animation rates and they have stood the test of time, still working very well in Open Rails.