[Siebren]

For downloading route content I would like to develop a download button in the OR menu somewhere. This button would download routes which are stored in Github. No zipfiles to download and unzip in a certain place. No more adding content in the content menu. Just click the install button for a certain route and it gets installed in OR. Ok, this would only work for complete routes. But it could be the beginning of a content installer from within OR.

Technically I've done some testing. Cloning from Github is possible from inside the menu binary. As is a pull request for updates. However lots of details to be filled in.

Siebren.

[Aldarion]

While developing content I've initially distributed content on compressed files (zip, rar...)
Main problem were all the enthusiasts mails and complaints about content not working, mainly because they never followed the instructions I made so everytime i had an email I had to write down an even more detailed procedure list or use a real-tim chat option...I even had once or twice used the old windows aplication for assistence to actually enter on'es desktop and place the files myself.
One day I started to using Install Creator. Its a blessing. It stopped more than 90% of incoming help requests. Install Creator was able to find MSTS installation path and do all the work for me and the users.
So as a developer I'm up on using installers
Has a user, yeah, I'm all for using zip... I also like to know what I'm getting, but mainly because most of the times, the devs do not include con files or have any tweaks that I need to do before using the content I'm downloading.

For Open Rails I figured I had to use another solution besides those two. cjakeman convinced and helped me to get a grasp on Git and sharing content with Github. It's working.
Most of the users that want my content are having a hard time at first, as it is a new process and requires a bit of learning. After it is simpler for them but I also know I'm losing users that do not have to go onto all the fuss on installing of more piece of software and learn how to use it, no matter the step-by-step procedure I've wrinten translating cjakeman's manual for github. Also, I am having a problem with Github. I cannot include 3D cab shape files... more than 100mb.

So, another solution is needed.

[Stephen]

Hi,

Zip files for me too, that way I can see what I'm getting before installing to the desired location.


Stephen

[pwillard]

Jonatan, on 10 December 2023 - 04:19 PM, said:

Zip files, for everything above. Installing random exes don't sit well with me these days, and there's a special place in h3ll for those single-item (like a wagon or a scenery object) installers that add a folder structure with an uninstaller!

I feel the same way. No more EXE installers please.

[Eldorado.Railroad]

What needs to be said is:

ANYTHING that is executable from unknown/unverified/unscanned/untrusted sources are VECTORS for viruses/trojans/ransomware/identity theft...etc A zip/7zip file is not, as long as there are NO EXECUTABLES in that zip/7zip file for a hapless user to click on.

The latent ongoing complaints about things "not working" because instructions are not being followed will continue. We do not need more entries clogging up the windows registry. Spend a little time and look at the purposeful obfuscation you see of directory structures in other payware sims and tell me how that is better. Not to mention encryption and DRM as an added feature.

What your concern is, is that newbies are baffled about how this sim works. Maybe that should be part of the Open Rails Manual, such that a newbie will "get" what they are getting into. If that information is in the Open Rail Manual then we are having to deal with TL;DR dilemma. In the age we are living, download a "smartphone" app and bingo you are done, Open Rails brings you back to a PDP/11 (google that if you were born in 1990) age by comparison. Regardless of the age of our prospective new users, it needs to be conveyed that Open Rails is a hackers sim, not some plug and play Xbox game. You will have to spend some time in frustration before the pleasure arrives.

The Liquid Tide bottle I am perched on (on one foot!) on is starting to get crushed here under my weight!!

Happy Holidays,
Steve

[steved]

OpenRails is a giant model railroad. Some assembly required.

Randy

[Jack@Elvas]

I appreciate the feedback and generally agree on the stance of new .exe's.

This had me thinking...

Do most zip files encapsulate a folder structure that most of you would recognize by eyesight?

I also have to add that I met with Dave this past weekend and he gave me a nice introduction to the file structure that consists of Trains\trainset and trains\consists

Taking all of the above into consideration, it gives me a few ideas:
1 - Seems we all agree .exe=bad, .zip=good.
2 - Could a 'content install wizard' do a recursive inspection of a zipfile, looking for key structures like Trains\trainset, and as part of the wizard would suggest a potential install path for the content found in the zip file?

This could benefit the community by providing a system to assist new users, while maintaining backward compatiblity - ie the folks here might prefer to unzip manually and that'd be just fine, while a new user might use the wizard, point to the zip file and use the wizard to help them install (the wizard might even tell the user what it's doing, educating the user in the process)

And here's one more idea:
#3 .orp file extension = OpenRailsPackage
An ORP file would be a standard ZIP file, that contains some kind of manifest file in the root folder, and the zip is renamed to .ORP

The end user experience would be similar to installing a zip file using the wizard proposed above, but the manifest file can help the wizard, prepopulating certain choices.

The advantage of #3 is that it appears to check all boxes:

Imagine a file named CoolRoute.RDP.

+ Expert users like yourselves would just rename coolroute.orp to coolroute.zip and proceed to use your favorite zip tool to extract the content.

+ New users would double click coolroute.orp which would launch openrails, openrails would read the file find the manifest and display the appropriate UI to the user to continue the install.

+ Commercial Content creators have a format they can use to distribute to end users, without needing to purchase a signing certificate or deal with installers.

Thoughts?

[Jack@Elvas]

Weter, on 11 December 2023 - 09:39 AM, said:

You are Genius, Jack :)
And, when You'll have time, try and search for "the project of virtual file system (zipped content) for ORTS" here on ET.

I tried that search and it gave me an error (I think too many words)
Then I searched virtual file system and got a bunch of results but none that seemed dedicated to the topic.

Do you have a link to a thread where this has been discussed before?

I'd love to read up on what was discussed prior.

[Weter]

Well, sorry to confuse You.
Indeed, it was discussed for decades, in dоzens of topics, I believe.
Try to search posts by YoRyan and gpz (from their profiles), related to virtual file system - as they are developers of that theme.

My motive was, that said system was supposed to be zipped for saving disk space, and being unzipped during loading of game session.

[pwillard]

Installers and tools should be scripts or be open source. I get super frustrated when things are closed source for "freely shared" resourcesa and tools. We are stuck with the "frozen in time" solution that can never be updated, only replaced if the developer orphans it.

Scripting languages such as PowerShell, Python and Ruby shoiuold be considered since that way we always have the source and someone *might* be willing to step-up and take over. It does the community no good to have a person figure out a solution to something... hide it away in an EXE and then take it to their grave. That's just not the concept behind "OPEN RAILS".