Elvas Tower: Dynamic brake features - Elvas Tower

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Dynamic brake features Rate Topic: -----

#11 User is offline   cesarbl 

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Posted 16 September 2023 - 11:34 PM

Here's an example using Darwin's controller:
ORTSTrainDynamicBlendingTable(
    0 (0 0 300km/h 0)
    0.2 (0 0 300km/h 0)
    0.3 (0 0.4 300km/h 0.4)
    0.4 (0 0.7 300km/h 0.7)
    0.5 (0 1 300km/h 1)
    0.8 (0 1 300km/h 1)
    1 (0 0 300km/h 0)
)

Brake_Train ( 0 1 0.1 0.2
NumNotches ( 8
Notch ( 0       0 TrainBrakesControllerReleaseStart )  Comment ( Release / Running )
Notch ( 0.2  0 TrainBrakesControllerEPHoldStart )  Comment ( Hold EP )
Notch ( 0.3  0 TrainBrakesControllerEPHoldStart )  Comment ( Regeneration I )
Notch ( 0.4  0 TrainBrakesControllerEPFullServiceStart  )  Comment ( Regeneration II and EP )
Notch ( 0.5  0 TrainBrakesControllerEPFullServiceStart ) Comment ( Regeneration III and EP )
Notch ( 0.6  0 TrainBrakesControllerHoldStart ) Comment ( Lap Air )
Notch ( 0.8  0 TrainBrakesControllerFullServiceStart ) Comment ( Apply Air )
Notch ( 1.0  0 TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyStart ) Comment ( Emergency ) ) )


Probably this is a good moment to allow custom labels for Notches. This would be useful both for notched throttle and brake controllers. The only problem I see is with i8n, but we have already broken that with ORTSLabel, so I think we can do it here too.

#12 User is offline   Laci1959 

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Posted 17 September 2023 - 12:15 AM

Hello.

https://kephost.net/p/OTg0MTk4.png
Characteristic curve of the wheel traction force of the Bombardier TRAXX locomotive. From the training material issued for locomotive drivers.

https://kephost.net/p/OTg0MTk3.png
Characteristic curve of the electric braking force appearing on the wheels of the Bombardier TRAXX locomotive.

Sincerely, Laci1959

#13 User is offline   darwins 

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Posted 17 September 2023 - 04:39 AM

It is interesting to see both the traction curve and the dynamic brake curve together. That gives a good clue to guessing the braking curves for locomotives that we can not find published curves for.

#14 User is offline   darwins 

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Posted 17 September 2023 - 09:30 PM

View Postcesarbl, on 16 September 2023 - 11:34 PM, said:


Probably this is a good moment to allow custom labels for Notches. This would be useful both for notched throttle and brake controllers. The only problem I see is with i8n, but we have already broken that with ORTSLabel, so I think we can do it here too.


Yes please. http://www.elvastower.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/clapping.gif

#15 User is offline   cesarbl 

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Posted 17 September 2023 - 10:39 PM

How about something like this?
Brake_Train ( 0 1 0.1 0.2
NumNotches ( 8
Notch ( 0       0 TrainBrakesControllerReleaseStart ORTSLabel ( "Running" ) )
Notch ( 0.2  0 TrainBrakesControllerEPHoldStart  ORTSLabel ( "Hold EP" ) )
Notch ( 0.3  0 TrainBrakesControllerEPHoldStart ORTSLabel ( "Regeneration I" ) )
Notch ( 0.4  0 TrainBrakesControllerEPFullServiceStart ORTSLabel ( "Reg. II EP" ) )
Notch ( 0.5  0 TrainBrakesControllerEPFullServiceStart ORTSLabel ( "Reg. III EP" ) )
Notch ( 0.6  0 TrainBrakesControllerHoldStart )
Notch ( 0.8  0 TrainBrakesControllerFullServiceStart )
Notch ( 1.0  0 TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyStart ) ) )


#16 User is offline   darwins 

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Posted 18 September 2023 - 12:34 AM

Looks good. So many brake controllers that would be useful for. Also some throttles and some gear changes and maybe some other controls.

#17 User is offline   pschlik 

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Posted 18 September 2023 - 06:12 AM

Custom labels would be a great thing to have. It's all too easy to find situations where the default notch text isn't what you need.

#18 User is offline   akioyamamura 

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Posted 04 October 2023 - 06:31 PM

Another cool feature would be a delay between the controller and the brake effort, since the brake reacts in realtime what is unreal.
Something similar to the RateOfChangeUpRPMpSS and RateOfChangeDownRPMpSS would be great to simulate this behavior.

#19 User is offline   darwins 

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Posted 01 November 2023 - 05:43 AM

Thanks. It seems this is working for train brakes like this:

Brake_Train ( 0 1 0.01 0.50
NumNotches ( 5
 Notch ( 0.0 0 TrainBrakesControllerOverchargeStart ORTSLabel ( "RELEASE" ) )
 Notch ( 0.2 0 TrainBrakesControllerReleaseStart ORTSLabel ( "RUNNING" ) )
 Notch ( 0.5 0 TrainBrakesControllerHoldLappedStart  ORTSLabel ( "LAP" ) )
 Notch ( 0.7 0 TrainBrakesControllerFullServiceStart ORTSLabel ( "APPLY" ) )
 Notch ( 1.0 0 TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyStart ORTSLabel ("EMERGENCY") ) ) )


but not for independent brakes like this:

 Brake_Engine ( 0 1 0.1 0
NumNotches ( 4
 Notch ( 0.0   0 EngineBrakesControllerReleaseStart ORTSLabel ( "RUNNING" )
 Notch ( 0.3   0 EngineBrakesControllerHoldLappedStart ORTSLabel ( "LAP" )
 Notch ( 0.7  0 EngineBrakesControllerApplyStart ) ORTSLabel ( "SLOW APPLICATION" )
 Notch ( 1.0  0 EngineBrakesControllerEmergencyStart ) ORTSLabel ( "QUICK APPLICATION" ) ) ) )


#20 User is offline   Weter 

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Posted 10 September 2024 - 10:38 AM

Hello.
I have missed this discussion somehow.
May I know: is it documented anywhere? or can it be documented.
Is it included to testing version's code already?
Or, at least, what all numbers mean:
0 (
0 0
300km/h 0
)

#21 User is offline   Albertosaurio65 

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Posted 11 September 2024 - 08:38 AM

0 (                   //Throttle %
            0 0            //speed vs force (m/s - N)
            300km/h 0     //speed vs force (kmh - N)
        )


For things like this:
Attached Image: Sin título.jpg

#22 User is offline   Weter 

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Posted 11 September 2024 - 08:46 AM

Thanks, Alberto,
Do I catch it right, these are minimal (zero) speed and Maximal speed to force ratio pairs for every lever's position, which form each "table's" entry?

#23 User is offline   cesarbl 

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Posted 25 October 2024 - 08:08 AM

I would like to propose yet a new feature regarding train dynamic brake blending. Typically, dynamic braking is not effective at low speeds. Thus, when the train brake controller demands an amount of dynamic braking, the resulting dynamic brake force would be quite low. This could be quite disturbing since the braking force is suddenly reduced. To avoid this, some locomotives replace this dynamic brake with engine brakes at low speeds.

Implementing this has been in my mind for some time, but I thought it was rather specific. However, this function has been implemented by at least 3 european manufacturers: Alstom, Bombardier and CAF.

I now have a working beta for this. It would be activated by a single token to be added in the engine section of the .eng file. I propose one of the following names for the token:

- ORTSTrainDynamicBlendingAirReplacement
- ORTSDynamicBrakesReverseBlending

Choosing an adequate name for the feature is more difficult than the implementation, so any feedback is welcome.

#24 User is offline   Csantucci 

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Posted 25 October 2024 - 08:29 AM

My 5 cents: ORTSDynamicBrakeReplacementWithEngineBrake

#25 User is offline   Weter 

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Posted 25 October 2024 - 08:43 AM

Hello.
Looks like long-awaited feature.
Not only locomotives, but electric commuter trains, metro EMU and trams widely use this.
Sometimes (and most usually), it's actuated by further dynamic brake's range notch (before "Emergency"), called, say, "TR"; sometimes this is added automatically, according to DB's current drop.

Anyway, this is called here "Substitution of dynamic brake", also, electropneumatic valve, responsible for adding friction brakes in that case is called "Substitution valve".

Thanks for Your labors, Cesar!

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