Elvas Tower: Open Rails versions - Elvas Tower

Jump to content

Posting Rules

All new threads will be started by members of the Open Rails team, Staff, and/or Admins. Existing threads started in other forums may get moved here when it makes sense to do so.

Once a thread is started any member may post replies to it.
  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Open Rails versions Are they confusing? Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   cjakeman 

  • Vice President
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: ET Admin
  • Posts: 2,868
  • Joined: 03-May 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Peterborough, UK
  • Simulator:Open Rails
  • Country:

Posted 05 December 2021 - 12:31 PM

Steamer_ctn suggested to me that the 3 official versions of Open Rails:

  • Stable
  • Testing
  • Unstable

are not set out clearly anywhere.

I've added some diagrams to the website which try to explain the role and relationships between them. The old page http://openrails.org/download/program/ now covers only the Stable Version and the new page http://openrails.org...nload/versions/ has the diagrams and you can download the Testing Version from there.


The first of the diagrams is shown below:

Attached Image: 2021-12-05 20_30_15-MS Excel with extensions - versions.xlsx.jpg

Feedback welcome as always.

#2 User is offline   Genma Saotome 

  • Owner Emeritus and Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: ET Admin
  • Posts: 15,350
  • Joined: 11-January 04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:United States
  • Simulator:Open Rails
  • Country:

Posted 05 December 2021 - 12:46 PM

Where does monogame fit in?

#3 User is offline   Weter 

  • Member, Board of Directors
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: ET Admin
  • Posts: 6,956
  • Joined: 01-June 20
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Simulator:ORTS
  • Country:

Posted 05 December 2021 - 02:04 PM

@ Chris
I'm very pleased with work, have done.
I tried to explain that, but those diagrams present things very clear.
The only one sorrow: the link for downloading testing version is placed deeper now.

I invite you to see ORTS basics section and welcome to use any ideas from there, which you would find useful.

And another thought:
What about explaining the numbering system of versions?

#4 User is offline   Genma Saotome 

  • Owner Emeritus and Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: ET Admin
  • Posts: 15,350
  • Joined: 11-January 04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:United States
  • Simulator:Open Rails
  • Country:

Posted 06 December 2021 - 02:39 PM

View PostWeter, on 05 December 2021 - 01:10 PM, said:

Hello, Dave.
Chris have mentioned

Carlo's (are You asking about thAt?) NYMG version is derived from testing version of known number, then modified in some way, and also special features are added there. So, I suppose, that must be the "branch" to the below of "testing" level, or, maybe, to the left, if we consider given picture.

Also, note, that NYMG doesn't contain manual.


Yeah. I downloaded the NYMG version the other day and then read the basenote here and I was left wondering where, exactly, does Carlo's (very fine) work fit in. So perhaps something in the picture is warranted.

#5 User is offline   R H Steele 

  • Executive Vice President
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: ET Admin
  • Posts: 3,445
  • Joined: 14-March 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:known universe
  • Simulator:Open Rails
  • Country:

Posted 06 December 2021 - 02:59 PM

I have the current stable version installed, but never run it -- I use it only for comparison troubleshooting. I run everything with the monogame version ... its' ability to use ReShade, is an important advantage to me.

#6 User is offline   Serana 

  • Conductor
  • Group: Status: Contributing Member
  • Posts: 489
  • Joined: 21-February 13
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:St Cyr l'Ecole (France)
  • Simulator:Open Rails
  • Country:

Posted 07 December 2021 - 09:59 PM

View PostGenma Saotome, on 06 December 2021 - 02:39 PM, said:

Yeah. I downloaded the NYMG version the other day and then read the basenote here and I was left wondering where, exactly, does Carlo's (very fine) work fit in. So perhaps something in the picture is warranted.


On my side, I don't know why some of the features in the NYMG branch has not yet been added to the Unstable version, even as a draft.

View PostR H Steele, on 06 December 2021 - 02:59 PM, said:

I have the current stable version installed, but never run it -- I use it only for comparison troubleshooting. I run everything with the monogame version ... its' ability to use ReShade, is an important advantage to me.


Doesn't it work already for all versions since version 1.4?

#7 User is offline   gpz 

  • Superintendant
  • Group: Status: Elite Member
  • Posts: 1,772
  • Joined: 27-October 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Budapest
  • Simulator:OpenRails
  • Country:

Posted 07 December 2021 - 11:45 PM

View PostSerana, on 07 December 2021 - 09:59 PM, said:

On my side, I don't know why some of the features in the NYMG branch has not yet been added to the Unstable version, even as a draft.

I didn't follow the project closely when these many versions got forked from the parent project, and now I also wonder why people just develop their own versions instead of after a trying-out of a new feature just commiting that back to the base project. I don't now the background, but this actually makes me sad. If the forks are continuously diverging, not converging, then something is principally wrong.

#8 User is offline   Csantucci 

  • Member, Board of Directors
  • Group: Status: Elite Member
  • Posts: 7,000
  • Joined: 31-December 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Country:

Posted 08 December 2021 - 01:58 AM

What I am writing here reflects my point of view of today, which clearly could change in the future.
It's my aim that ORNYMG does not diverge from the official OR version, but runs in parallel to it; to use some metaphors, like a dolphin swimming near a big ship or a satellite around its planet. To be more concrete, I am keeping ORNYMG at a distance where it is always relatively simple for me to merge the official testing release into ORNYMG and (in the opposite direction) to generate official PRs of ORNYMG features.
It is not my aim not to implement in the official OR versions features of ORNYMG. However things aren't so straightforward, and I try to enter into detail.
- thanks to the support of Peter, yesterday I could merge into the official OR version the Distributed Power feature, because there was an approved blueprint for it; this is an example that, when possible and simple and fast, features migrate to the official OR
- at the moment I have three unapproved blueprints for features already present in ORNYMG (2D-cabview controls for side views, cabview controls for generic items and multiple screen pages); I could read a general statement suggesting not to proceed with official PRs before the related blueprints were approved
- some features present in ORNYMG have been fully developed by other people, and IMHO it's more appropriate if the blueprint and the following PR are managed by them
- someone has declared he would cope with the development of an official 64 bit OR
- some features aren't accepted in the official OR
- approval times for blueprints and PRs are often not very fast
- Cruise Control is a particular case: it has been developed by Jindrich, which has then gone his own way with the czech-slowak OR fork. Basing on his work, I have expanded the feature to cope with further real cases, leaving structure and hearth unaltered; so it's me that could generate a blueprint and a PR for the official OR; however there have been cases where I had to spend significant time modifying code and retesting to get approval for the official OR, and I am not a person who likes rewriting things that work; therefore I am rather reluctant to enter the official approval path for this feature, also because maybe it hasn't an architecture and an implementation that match with the OR standards; if however official reviewers examine the actual ORNYMG code for Cruise Control and declare a committment to approve it, I can proceed in migrating that feature.

#9 User is offline   gpz 

  • Superintendant
  • Group: Status: Elite Member
  • Posts: 1,772
  • Joined: 27-October 12
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Budapest
  • Simulator:OpenRails
  • Country:

Posted 08 December 2021 - 03:37 AM

I don't have the stone of ultimate wisdom, so these are just my thoughts.

View PostCsantucci, on 08 December 2021 - 01:58 AM, said:

- thanks to the support of Peter, yesterday I could merge into the official OR version the Distributed Power feature, because there was an approved blueprint for it; this is an example that, when possible and simple and fast, features migrate to the official OR
- at the moment I have three unapproved blueprints for features already present in ORNYMG (2D-cabview controls for side views, cabview controls for generic items and multiple screen pages); I could read a general statement suggesting not to proceed with official PRs before the related blueprints were approved

One might interpret this rule a bit differently too: The PR could be filed in a Draft state regardless whether the blueprint is approved: this way we would be one step closer to the goal. And when the blueprint is approved, the Draft flag can be removed. My comprehension is that the above rule/statement's goal is to possibly prevent people from doing unnecessary coding work by working on a feature not willing to be approved. But for existing coded features you are not doing anything wrong with filing the PR, in my opinion. And there will be the big forefinger in the form of the PR for the approvers, to do the approving work. This might be a possible speed-up in my opinion.

View PostCsantucci, on 08 December 2021 - 01:58 AM, said:

- some features present in ORNYMG have been fully developed by other people, and IMHO it's more appropriate if the blueprint and the following PR are managed by them

Probably the coders of these features are satisfied with their code is included to your release, and they think they are done. This is absolutely not your fault. However, because the code flows through your fingers, you might have an opportunity to intervene in the future to move things into the right direction ( – provided that you also think this kind of thing is currently moving into the wrong direction). You might set a condition to the coders, that you are not willing to include their code changes into your distribution until they file a PR into the official version as well (as draft), no matter how tempting their code changes are. And with this we have traced this point back to the previous, the approval one. (Not sure what to do with the existing changes though, probably it might be worth to go back to the original authors to ask to file the PR, and if they refuse, we must do the work by ourselves. I don't see any other way.)

View PostCsantucci, on 08 December 2021 - 01:58 AM, said:

- someone has declared he would cope with the development of an official 64 bit OR

Honestly, this is unclear to me too. I think all of us have a 64 bit version already. I also have made the necessary changes privatly on my own version to run OR on 64 bit dotnet core YEARS ago (minus winforms, but now that also works, so is out of picture). All of the "forks" are running 64 bit, what holds the official version back?

View PostCsantucci, on 08 December 2021 - 01:58 AM, said:

- some features aren't accepted in the official OR

Are they useful, technically correct, but despite of this not accepted? I think a list would be good of these to double-check, if they are really important.

View PostCsantucci, on 08 December 2021 - 01:58 AM, said:

- approval times for blueprints and PRs are often not very fast
- Cruise Control is a particular case: it has been developed by Jindrich, which has then gone his own way with the czech-slowak OR fork. Basing on his work, I have expanded the feature to cope with further real cases, leaving structure and hearth unaltered; so it's me that could generate a blueprint and a PR for the official OR; however there have been cases where I had to spend significant time modifying code and retesting to get approval for the official OR, and I am not a person who likes rewriting things that work; therefore I am rather reluctant to enter the official approval path for this feature, also because maybe it hasn't an architecture and an implementation that match with the OR standards; if however official reviewers examine the actual ORNYMG code for Cruise Control and declare a committment to approve it, I can proceed in migrating that feature.

I think a PR of this would be good to see of this too, because otherwise there is nothing specific there to talk about. Given that the original developers are – let's say – not here anymore, it won't change much. And Github provides a good platform for discussing the code even line-by-line, if necessary. Pointing on what's wrong.

I think something should be changed, because there is a chance that the ship beside the dolphin swims just gets smaller and smaller, until it is not visible at all. And when also the dolphin bores swimming, there will be nothing just the sea.

#10 User is offline   cjakeman 

  • Vice President
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: ET Admin
  • Posts: 2,868
  • Joined: 03-May 11
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Peterborough, UK
  • Simulator:Open Rails
  • Country:

Posted 08 December 2021 - 11:18 AM

View PostCsantucci, on 08 December 2021 - 01:58 AM, said:

- someone has declared he would cope with the development of an official 64 bit OR

View Postgpz, on 08 December 2021 - 03:37 AM, said:

Honestly, this is unclear to me too. I think all of us have a 64 bit version already. I also have made the necessary changes privatly on my own version to run OR on 64 bit dotnet core YEARS ago (minus winforms, but now that also works, so is out of picture). All of the "forks" are running 64 bit, what holds the official version back?

Yes, that someone is me and I wanted to get it into the official version because it seemed too important to linger any longer.

Bringing it over wasn't straightforward but I got help from Carlo, so the port to 64-bit is under way and will be here soon.

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users