[Genma Saotome]

Peter: Yes. Sounds great.

I do want to raise a question that comes to mind WRT suggestions choice of basic vs. advanced: Assume a situation where user A sets up parameters and parameter values specific to a particular option, lets call it option A, and strips away those parameters that are no longer relevant. He then transfers that .wag to others who have chosen option B. The file no longer works properly for user B.

The conundrum seems to be this: If user A leaves in stuff he no longer wants or needs he has cluttered his files w/ junk. He may have no expectation of sharing anything and so the desire to remove the junk is present. If he does so and the later on shares, we have the problem. If he doesn't rip out the obsolete his files hold a bunch of stuff that's simply not relevant to his operation. Its presence acts to obscure what is really important.

Second point: If the operational choice between options A and B are in the options screen there is no connection whatsoever between the actual data and the expected functionality.

My question therefore is this: Should the data in the the .wag and .eng files be explicit that a choice is available? An actual If / then / else would be ideal. For example:

If AdvancedCoupler

all the advanced parameter

else if BasicCoupler

all the basic parameters

else

all the original MSTS parameters

Just providing ORTSAdvancedRo() does declare its purpose perfectly well but exposes the file to Mal-behavior when an option at the game screen over-rides it.

The other question is what happens in the train when there is a mixture of advanced, basic, and MSTS couplers?


FWIW, I have not made any conclusion yet as to whether doing anything different than past practice is called for, just trying to raise awareness that there may well be an issue that arises from unintended consequences. Were I required to take a position at this early stage I'd probably conclude the if/then/else clause is a requirement for this and perhaps other matters as well.

[Mike B]

Good points. One way to deal with it would be lowest common denominator: the game would default physics to the lowest level present in the train. That might produce some ... ummm ... interesting behavior at times. Another way is for the game to assume properties consistent with the majority of the wagons/engines and override the simpler ones. There's always the potential for a checkbox to control the level of override happening based on whether the play level is Minimal/MSTS/Advanced. That's why I asked about property sheets - not for the .wag/.eng files but for the game itself - which could govern how overrides happen. Procedural wagons to go with procedural track?

FWIW, ORTS seems to do a pretty good job now dealing with the varying wag/eng physics in different models of ages and attention to detail. So for casual users it's currently a good compromise. I would hope that improvements wouldn't mess with that too much.

[Genma Saotome]

Another possibility is to declare upfront which "class" a given file belongs to, much as we already do with MSTS/OR vs. OR Only.


For myself, I very much prefer culling MSTS parameters that OR doesn't use. In the case of advanced coupler functionality I would use whatever it requires and dump what it doesn't.

I have almost all of Tim Muir's freight cars converted to use .inc files with ORTS parameters -- strictly OR only -- and my plan was to put them in the file library as OR only. But I realized Peter's description of Advanced could have broad implications for what was and wasn't in any given .wag file, hence my earlier post.

I'd want the "clean" file option; I'm not sure it is possible.

[steamer_ctn]

Just to make life interesting I think that we need to think about two different components.

ENG/WAG Files
Firstly, when referring to ENG/WAG files I have considered the difference between BASIC and ADVANCED to be as follows:

i) BASIC - is all information that can be easily obtained with a simple Internet search - for example, a NSW C38 locomotive as defined in Wikipedia could be considered have enough information for a BASIC configuration.
ii) ADVANCED - would be information that may not be readily available from and INTERNET search and may require specialist information sourced by enthusiasts or from railway societies. Eamples of the types of ADVANCED parameters might include those listed on this page.

OR Operational Features
Secondly, the function or features provided by OR would be different depending upon whether ADVANCED or BASIC operating mode were selected. So using Adhesion as an example, in BASIC mode the locomotive wheel slip may not be a big issue as it is desensitized in this mode, whereas in ADVANCED mode the user would need to be very careful of wheelslip, and drive carefully to prevent it, as would be expected in real life.

It should be noted that OR can be operated in either BASIC or ADVANCED mode regardless of whether a WAG/ENG file is configured as BASIC or ADVANCED, as it has standard defaults which allow operation of ADVANCED functions.

Thus too a certain extent the above two levels can be considered independent of each other. However the most realistic OR operation would occur when OR was set to ADVANCED, and the ENG/WAG files were configured to an ADVANCED level.
I am sorry if this sounds a bit confusing.

[edwardk]

As it is now, is OR able to come close to accurate train running when using the known HPT(Horsepower Per Ton) formula as well as the formula used to calculate hp needed to target min train speed(I believe) for grades?

Edward K.

[mbm_OR]

hroch, on 06 September 2018 - 12:51 AM, said:

Everything other ( steam, electric ) works the same as in the patch 05.

Please, try this new code.

Regards,
Mauricio

22/10/2018. File deleted, by new code.

[hroch]

Hello,

works correctly:
steam:
locomotive_information_1280x1024_page_right

locomotive_information_1280x1024_2xpage_right

locomotive_information_1024x768_normal_steam

locomotive_information_1024x768_page_right_2/2_steam

locomotive_information_1024x768_2x_page_right_21_steam

locomotive_information_1024x768_2x_page_right_22_steam


diesel:
locomotive_information_1280x1024_normal_diesel

locomotive_information_1280x1024_page_right_diesel

locomotive_information_1024x768_normal_diesel

locomotive_information_1024x768_page_right_diesel


el. loco
locomotive_information_1024x768_normal_el_loco

locomotive_information_1024x768_page_right_el_loco


all locos
force_information_1280x1024_normal

force_information_1280x1024_page_right

force_information_1024x768_normal

force_information_1024x768_page_right

force_information_1208x1024_page_12

force_information_1208x1024_page_22

force_information_1024x768_page14

force_information_1024x768_page24

force_information_1024x768_page34

force_information_1024x768_page44


does not work correctly:
Consist information: the scroll control appears. There is nothing to move

brake information: the scroll control appears. There is nothing to move


brake_information_1280x1024_normal

brake_information_1280x1024_page_right

brake_information_1024x768_normal Consist with 50 wagons. Does not display numbers 29

brake_information_1024x768_page22


consist_information_1280x1024_normal:
Consist with 50 wagons. Does not display numbers 44,45,46,47

consist_information_1280x1024_page22


consist_information_1024x768_normal
Consist with 50 wagons. Does not display numbers 28,29,30,31

consist_information_1024x768_page22


locomotive_information_1280x1024_normal_el_loco brake: The scroll control appears. There is nothing to move

locomotive_information_1280x1024_page_right_el_loco: Missing values.

[mbm_OR]

hroch, on 20 October 2018 - 06:32 AM, said:

does not work correctly:

Hi hroch,

Thank you very much for making such a complete test. This has helped me to debug the code more quickly.

• Consist information: the scroll control appears. There is nothing to move. Fixed.
  
• Brake information: the scroll control appears. There is nothing to move. Fixed.
  
• Brake_information_1280x1024_normal. Does not display numbers 40. Fixed.
  
• Brake_information_1280x1024_page_right. Info missing. Fixed.
  
• Brake_information_1024x768_normal Consist with 50 wagons. Does not display numbers 29. Fixed.
  
• Consist_information_1024x768_normal. Consist with 50 wagons. Does not display numbers 44,45,46,47. Fixed.
  
• Consist_information_1024x768_normal. Consist with 50 wagons. Does not display numbers 28,29,30,31. Fixed.
  
• Locomotive_information_1280x1024_normal_el_loco brake: The scroll control appears. There is nothing to move. Fixed.
  
• Locomotive_information_1280x1024_page_right_el_loco: Missing values. I have not been able to replicate it.
  

About the arrow symbols, I noticed that in your screenshots they are displayed correctly in the "Scroll Control" window, but not at the beginning of the lines when the "Right page" or the "Left page" are selected.
To try to solve it, this new code replaces the arrow symbols by the equivalent source code. I hope that this could be a fix for this.

Attached the test file.
23/10/2018. File deleted by new code.

Regards,
Mauricio

[R H Steele]

Thank you all, for working on this feature. Much Appreciated.Best Regards, Gerry

[hroch]

Hi Mauricio

works correctly:
el. loco:
locomotive information 1280x1024 el. loco

locomotive information 1024x768 el. loco 1xpage right

locomotive information 1024x768 el. loco 2xpage right


all locomotives
consist information 1024x768, 1280x1024 same

brake information 1024x768, 1280x1024 same



does not works correctly:
all locomotives
consist infromation_1280x1024 with 50 wagons missing scroll control

consist information 1024x768with 50 wagons missing scroll control

brake infromation_1280x1024 with 50 wagons missing scroll control

brake information 1024x768with 50 wagons missing scroll control


Do you mean a small triangle at the beginning of a line? If yes, so it is not displayed correctly.