[bobwdude]

Hi,

After taking a wonderful trip from Boston to Pittsburgh by train this past fall, I've wanted to accurately NS and Amtrak over NS's Pittsburgh Line in OR. I was wondering if anyone has used the timetable feature of Open Rails to successfully model helper operations. I'd love to create a timetable for Austin Yoder's wonderful Horseshoe Curve route, however, one of the defining features of NS runs over that section of the Pittsburgh line is the use of manned helpers over the curve. Is it possible to do this in an efficient manner? After looking through the OR manual again, I was wondering if it would be possible the "runround" subcommand in $forms to model helpers splitting off at the top of the grade to run back down to Altoona. I guess it would also be possible to represent each train over the route as a series of 3 "trains".

"Train 1" – westbound train enters Altoona and stops. Helper units move to the back of the train, and that triggers the disposal "Train 1" and the helper.
"Train 2" – new train is spawned consisting of the original westbound consist + helpers at the rear. This train then travels up the grade to Cresson. "Train 2" stops and is disposed of.
"Train 3" – The disposal of "Train 2" triggers the spawning of the original westbound consist ("Train 1") and the helper unit as two separate trains. "Train 3" continues westward and the helpers run light back to Altoona or remain in Cresson to provide braking for eastbound trains.

[Csantucci]

I'm not able to provide an answer about timetable mode, but what you request is possible in activity mode.

[rickloader]

Hi! I`m not familiar with Horseshoe Curve, but you can model helper operations in timetable mode. Your plan looks feasible, but I would not use the runround command, but a combination of $transfer and $detach. If you have a station platform at Altoona the commands can be in the timetable stations field. If not you will have to put each command in the dispose field, at the end of the path and $form a new train and path. (as you seem aware).
There would be several ways of doing this, but I think the following would be a possibility. (although timetable commands are comprehensive, I find I have to try several to get the correct sequence)


$transfer = westboundtrain1 /give /allpower

$forms = westboundtrain2 $detach /alltrailingpower /forms = helpersreturn

If there are signals you might need a calling on to get the helpers to approach the westbound train. Otherwise backing the helpers through a reverse point and switch seems to help enter "train ahead" mode for coupling.
If the Horseshoe curve is a long section it could be time saving to make a short test route in TSRE5
If you don`t mind modifying the route, then placing station platforms where helpers attach /detach makes timetabling much easier
hope this helps, rick

[bobwdude]

Rickloader, have you made a timetable with helper operations that you'd be willing to share? I like the idea of adding "fake" stations to a route rather messing with dispose!

Looking at the commands you recommended, would "$forms = westboundtrain2 $detach /alltrailingpower /forms = helpersreturn" actually break the train with helpers into two "usable" trains that can be commanded (i.e being able to define paths for the helpers to follow back down the grade to assist other trains)?

[rickloader]

I also need to model a helper (or banking in UK!) operation, so I will set this up for my own route, and post the timetable here. You can then extract the commands and syntax to apply to Horseshoe curve. It will take me a day or so, as I always need to try several approaches, and then eliminate errors.

The command suggested should break the train into 2 usable trains, but I haven`t tested exactly this, just similar.
"$forms = westboundtrain2" makes a new (continuation) train out of westboundtrain1. ie the main train
"$detach /alltrailingpower" detaches all the helpers. assumed more than 1, on rear of train
"/forms = helpersreturn" makes the helpers into a new train for the return trip down the hill or other duties
4 trains would be invoved
1) westboundtrain1
2)helpersapproach (to couple to westboundtrain1)
3)westboundtrain2
4)helpersreturn
So you need 4 timetable columns and 4 paths. Less if you have a station location.

rick

[rickloader]

I Have a helper operation working using stations, and commands in the stations field of the time table
3 trains are involved and the sequence is as follows
1) westboundtrain1
#start 06:42 (path starts at the bottom of the hill)
2) helpers (path reverses and backs through a switch to overlap the path of westbound train1)
#start 06:40
06:41$attach = westboundtrain1
(the train "helpers" attaches to westboundtrain1 and ceases to exist, being absorbed by it.
3) westboundtrain1 (in station field at top of hill)
06:55-06:58$detach /alltrailingpower /forms = helpersreturn
(the helpers are detached forming a new train and can return down the hill. They need a separate timetable column, and a path overlapping the station platform a top of hill)
4) westbound train continues

Some matters arising -
I originally proposed $transfer, wanting to preserve the identity of the helpers. But this doesn`t matter as the separate helpers train is reformed on detaching. So $attach is better.
On my route the OR has transposed the leading and trailing positions of the main train. I suspect that this is because the train has retained the original orientation through 2 reversals and $form commands.
With tender locos I find a problem with the /trailingpower. Either a tender is left behind or OR complains
"Error: System.InvalidCastException: Unable to cast object of type 'Orts.Simulation.RollingStocks.MSTSWagon' to type 'Orts.Simulation.RollingStocks.MSTSLocomotive'."
This is a pity, as I know Rob did take tenders into account in coding.
I will try
06:55-06:58$detach /units = -2 /forms = helpersreturn
Apologies for this partially complete approach, but I hope the developing ideas help. Also real life tends to get in the way of my promises! When the helper operation is complete, I will try and make a specimen timetable.
rick

[bobwdude]

Since the helpers are formed into a new train after the $detach command, have you had issues with the helper units teleporting to the start of their path for the return journey? I'd imagine it would be nearly impossible to perfectly line up the starting point of the path for the helpers with the end of the stopped westbound train.

And don't worry - my classes somehow were able to detect that I was about to start using my free time in a productive manner, and decided to simply fill up all of my time! Hopefully, in the coming weekend I'll be able to get some timetable work done.

What lines (and in what era) were there banking operations in the UK? I'm not too familiar with British railroad operations.

[rickloader]

Open Rails is thankfully coded so that you don`t need to line up paths exactly. Just an overlap of the 2 paths is needed. You could use Trackviewer to identify a location for consistent path points. A platform marker, or a certain track section, for example.
If the timing of the trains is unreliable you could put a $wait. (although I haven`t yet mastered this)

Banking and piloting (extra loco on front) were common in the UK steam era : seldom today. And never the massive array of helpers used in the USA and Russia. Look for "Lickey Incline" on You Tube.
Piloting was often used as a way of getting a light engine to destination without adding to congestion. ("assisting not required" in railway timetable speak)
Closely related are empty train movements where the empty train is $transferred from the incoming loco to the outgoing.
So I think we are fortunate in having the capability in timetables.
I`m not sure the OR manual has full details
http://www.elvastowe...__1#entry220170

[bobwdude]

Thanks for your help. I'll be back when I can get a proof of concept to work on this route.

[Produktak]

Hello,

I hope I chose the right thread. Please could I ask how to define the way for a run round? Is there a using of revesal point? How do I get the locomotive to follow the side track and run into the train in opposite direction?. Thank you for your answer to my initial question.

I mean

Run A->B
Run round
Run B->A

Thank you very much

Petr

[rickloader]

There is a special runround command. see manual p173.
1)You end the path runA>B where you want the runround to take place.
2) In the #dispose row of the time table for train runA>B make the following entry
$forms=RunB>A /runround=myrunroundpath
3) make a path "myrunroundpath" Start and end the path overlapping inside the runA>B path, and taking the side track with reversing points, to reach the other end of the train.
4) make a new train timetable column "RunB>A". Make the new path start inside the RunA>B path.
There are some extra optional qualifying features to runround but the above should get you going.
( I went to Czechia on my motorbike this Summer. You have a very beautiful country! And the architecture is exceptional!)
rick

[Produktak]

Hi,

thank you very much for your reply and advice. Which cities / places you visited?

[rickloader]

Hi, I went to Svykarsko and Cesky Heralec Parks and Cesky les near Pilsen on the way home. Also the Tatra mountains. The countryside is so beautiful and unspoiled! Also the buildings are so ornate, even the factories. My Father walked across Czechoslovakia in 1938 amd said it was the most beautiful country in Europe. Maybe it still is! Which part are you from?
rick

[Produktak]

Thats cool that you like my country :-) I'm from different part - north moravia near to Poland border and I'm try to play with Time Table and Bohumin station :-)