[copperpen]

Works perfectly for me now using either the 5 notch controller shown above or the 3 notch controller shown by Peter in the other thread. I have slowed the control application and release rates as well which allows better handling.

[Coolhand101]

On the EMU trains I've seen with two brake systems, if the EP brake magnets did fail, then the triple valve will move to the proportion of the brake handle. This is the only time the brake pipe shows a deduction. I've never known the brake pipe to move when using EP. I can only say this is correct for UK trains with these two brake systems. Modern UK EMU single systems, do not have a brake pipe, just an electronic continuity wire. If the EP failed on these units, then the wire should break to give an emergency brake application.
More to follow.

Okay, i can get the brake pipe not to move when using EP and move when using Apply.

Its finding the right combination with these tokens :--

TrainBrakesControllerMinPressureReduction( 0 )
TrainBrakesControllerMaxSystemPressure( 70 )
TrainBrakesControllerFullServicePressureDrop( 20 )

If the 3rd token is zero, the brake pipe wont move in EP, but the EP brake will past its max service pressure from 50PSI to 70PSI.

Another bonus with your fix is, when using EP and then the brake handle is move to "lap" the EP brake cylinder returns to zero, ready for manual westinghouse. Very neat this, as this happen in real life with certain units.

Thanks

[gpz]

Coolhand101, on 17 July 2015 - 01:10 PM, said:

On the EMU trains I've seen with two brake systems, if the EP brake magnets did fail, then the triple valve will move to the proportion of the brake handle. This is the only time the brake pipe shows a deduction.

At the moment of the failure the brake pipe must already be in an applying state, so it can "jump in" immediately, otherwise safety suffers. That's why the brake pipe pressure deduction must be started at the same time the electronic apply command sent. I am quite sceptical about that a railway authority would certify a brake controller not doing this. And also, the brake controller must be able to control coaches not equipped with EP system. (Certainly I am not absolutely sure about my knowledge, I just didn't hear it otherwise.)

Coolhand101, on 17 July 2015 - 01:10 PM, said:

I've never known the brake pipe to move when using EP. I can only say this is correct for UK trains with these two brake systems. Modern UK EMU single systems, do not have a brake pipe, just an electronic continuity wire. If the EP failed on these units, then the wire should break to give an emergency brake application.

I'm afraid this kind of single-pipe setup was not handled by MSTS (and thus neither by OR). Please note, this is fundamentally different from a conventional single pipe system, since in that one the MRP was missing, while in your example the brake pipe is missing. I'm not saying I have ever heard about such a brake system. Must have been a big fight by the inventor with the authority, to accept this concept. At least in my country it would never be accepted... :)

Coolhand101, on 17 July 2015 - 01:10 PM, said:

Okay, i can get the brake pipe not to move when using EP and move when using Apply.

Its finding the right combination with these tokens :--

TrainBrakesControllerMinPressureReduction( 0 )
TrainBrakesControllerMaxSystemPressure( 70 )
TrainBrakesControllerFullServicePressureDrop( 20 )

If the 3rd token is zero, the brake pipe wont move in EP, but the EP brake will past its max service pressure from 50PSI to 70PSI.

Another bonus with your fix is, when using EP and then the brake handle is move to "lap" the EP brake cylinder returns to zero, ready for manual westinghouse. Very neat this, as this happen in real life with certain units.

I'm sorry not being able to be zealous about this finding, I don't like such hacks. :) Since it is not an intended behavior, don't expect to survive at a possible later modification. :bigboss:

[Coolhand101]

gpz, on 17 July 2015 - 02:03 PM, said:

At the moment of the failure the brake pipe must already be in an applying state, so it can "jump in" immediately, otherwise safety suffers. That's why the brake pipe pressure deduction must be started at the same time the electronic apply command sent. I am quite sceptical about that a railway authority would certify a brake controller not doing this. And also, the brake controller must be able to control coaches not equipped with EP system. (Certainly I am not absolutely sure about my knowledge, I just didn't hear it otherwise.)

Yes at the moment of EP failure, it took a few seconds for triple valve to "catch up" to the desired setting of the brake handle. This was the norm for UK EMU trains with twin brake systems.

gpz, on 17 July 2015 - 02:03 PM, said:

I'm sorry not being able to be zealous about this finding, I don't like such hacks. :bigboss: Since it is not an intended behavior, don't expect to survive at a possible later modification.

It's because of this parameter "TrainBrakesControllerFullServicePressureDrop()", being at 0, will cause this to happen. If set at 20, this will not happen. Not a hack, just a setting feature.

Thanks