[Coolhand101]

gpz, on 16 July 2015 - 12:59 PM, said:

only true EP is affected.

It is indeed. Really looking forward to this being fixed.

When applying the EP brake, you can see the deduction from the Main reservoir pipe. When the EP brake is fully release, the Main reservoir pipe holds still, as in the real world.

Thanks

[gpz]

Committed a fix as r3198. Hope it works. :)

[Lindsayts]

gpz, on 16 July 2015 - 11:13 AM, said:

EP brake is actually an "upgrade" only to a twin pipe system. Only two extra subcomponents are added:

1) An apply valve, that fills the brake cylinder directly from MR pipe, and
2) A holding valve, that prevents releasing air by triple valve in case of an application, where temporarily the brake cylinder pressure is higher, than it would be by the triple valve's own logic, since the "apply valve" fills it faster, and recognizing this, the triple valve would release the extra pressure by its own.

I think the latter one was implemented incorrectly, that prevented proper graduated releasing.
If of an EP brake electronic line failure, the whole system falls back to a normal twin pipe system. This may happen e.g. in case of a locomotive power cut. OR can also simulate this falling-back, although it is not currently triggered by anything, AFAIK.

Hope this answers your question.

I assume here the "apply" valve mentioned is the valve in the wagon thats electricaly controled by the brake handle.

Acoording to the Victorian Railways Hitachi docs, also the VR Sprinter docs state the switch to control the braking operates in parrallel with the air system, but the air signal has no effect as the electrical control has already set the brake pressure. If the electrical system fails the airline then does set the brakes.

Lindsay

[gpz]

Yes, your assumption is right. And yes, it works parallel, exactly as you describe.

[Lindsayts]

gpz, on 16 July 2015 - 11:49 PM, said:

Yes, your assumption is right. And yes, it works parallel, exactly as you describe.

A simple request, for the sake of completeness and to make it completely clear could you please put up and example of the brake section of an ENG and WAG of both a driver and a trailing car correctly configed to use EP brakes, this would eliminate any confusion.

LIndsay

[copperpen]

gpz, on 16 July 2015 - 01:16 PM, said:

I'm surprised about this too, since I cannot find anything in code that would parse "EP_Brake". Actually you may omit this info entirely.

So what you are saying is that for an EP brake system there is no need for the BrakeEquipmentType line. Indeed, I have just commented that line and edited the Brake Equipment data to remove the twin pipe that I had forgotten. So the engine and train brake types are now just EP. This now shows EP as the brake type with just two items in the main HUD brake info page. When set there is the Service% and BC level. When released only release is shown.

There is now nothing wrong with my EP brake setup. I would say however, if the manual contained better information on how these EP brakes are set up, this conversation would never have happened.

[Coolhand101]

gpz, on 16 July 2015 - 02:46 PM, said:

Committed a fix as r3198. Hope it works. :bigboss:

Hi, i can confirm, the EP brake token now gives a partial release.

Okay, after knowing what to look for, i've notice a new problem with the EP brake that did not happen before the fix.
When moving the brake handle towards the apply position, the deduction of Main reservoir air is correct, as was before the fix. However the brake pipe now also has a deduction. This did not happen before the fix.

Because the EP brake takes air only from the main reservoir, the brake pipe should not move.

Before the fix, the 2nd notch(EP Apply) in this brake setup would not cause the brake pipe to move -----

 Brake_Train ( 0 1 0.10 0.3 
            NumNotches ( 5
                Notch ( 0       0 TrainBrakesControllerReleaseStart )
                Notch ( 0.01    1 TrainBrakesControllerEPApplyStart )    ----- BC and MR movement
                Notch ( 0.80    0 TrainBrakesControllerSelfLapStart )
                Notch ( 0.90    0 TrainBrakesControllerApplyStart )     -------BC and BP movement
                Notch ( 1       0 TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyStart ) -------BC and BP movement

                )
            )

Again before the fix, the "TrainBrakesControllerEPApplyStart" would not cause a deduction from the Brake pipe , which it does now in this fix. If this was replaced with "TrainBrakesControllerGraduatedSelfLapLimitedHoldingStart" before the fix, the deduction from the brake pipe would also happen.

I hope this makes sense.

BTW my above brake setup mimics two brake systems, Although still EP, the "applystart" will give a brake pipe deduction before the fix.

Thanks

[gpz]

Yes, I also fixed the EP applying to work parallelly to the conventional air brake system, as it supposed to work since the beginning. (There was also a bug here.) Please see the conversation between me and Lindsay above.

[Coolhand101]

gpz, on 17 July 2015 - 11:54 AM, said:

Yes, I also fixed the EP applying to work parallelly to the conventional air brake system, as it supposed to work since the beginning. (There was also a bug here.) Please see the conversation between me and Lindsay above.

Please forgive, i just finished a 12 hour shift( voluntary ). Are you saying there will be a brake pipe deduction when using the E.P brake token?

Thanks

[gpz]

Yes, that is how EP brake works in real life. For safety reasons, as a failsafe, just in case the electronic signal fails for some reason.