[charland]

Hi Herb,

I've been called worse! No, I think the number of objects you will be able to get on one tile will depend on their complexity.

Paul :-)

[longiron]

 Goku, on 09 May 2015 - 06:25 PM, said:

I made a simple route editor some time ago and placed 10k objects on one tile.
:sign_sorry:

What do you mean - is it just an object placement tool for MSTS?

chris

[Goku]

Quote

I think the number of objects you will be able to get on one tile will depend on their complexity.

7393 is just an ultimate limit you can't exceed.

 longiron, on 10 May 2015 - 06:15 PM, said:

What do you mean - is it just an object placement tool for MSTS?

You see what it is here: https://www.youtube....h?v=F1ulyfL16CM
Or you can try it yourself http://www.koniec.org/TSRE5_2.zip , but there's no manual (edit settings.txt; some controls http://wklej.org/id/1708690/)

[CrisGer]

I heard from one modeller Route maker who was able to place 8000 objects on a tile that the trick was to save often..if a tile is wiped and you replace and keep saving it will eventually save and run. Havent tried it yet..but evidently if you use the Bin patch the object limit was removed in the latest one. Not that that helps for sure with the editor but between the two, it may have changed the game.

[Genma Saotome]

Guys, keep in mind there are several variables here:

How much memory can RE manage?
Do gaps in the sequence of UiD() values use up that memory (they appear to do so)
Does RE have an internal MaxObject() counter that we don't know about?
Does RR choke on objects on one tile or on the sum of all objects on the tiles that are displayed?

Consider for discussion purposes the later is true. That might mean 8k objects on one tile as well as a grand total of 8k objects across the 4 tiles that are displayed and that to accomplish either of those you have to manipulate the UiD() values.

The second set of variables relate to poly count and textures. MSTS does a lot of pre-processing of those and as such a lot more work and RAM is used to get that done than what OR uses. And so it's plausible you can hit some limit in RE on account of those factors for which there is no corresponding problem in OR... and you can hit some limit on account of these facts that create a lower number of objects that the absolute maximum anyone has been able to accomplish.

And so maybe it is possible to put 8k very simple, one texture objects on one tile; Change it to two textures and could you do it again? We don't know. Increase the poly count by 500%... could you do it again? We don't know. Add transparency to the texture... etc., etc., etc.


IMO I think the better way to examine this issue is to turn to OR and use the last display of the f5 sequence and look at the primitive count. With enough examples each person should be able to get some idea of where that primitive count allows fps>60, fps>40, >20, etc. etc. on their machine. That's the ultimate test and it's going to vary by each persons PC.

[Coonskin]

Said it before, I'll say it again: There is a LIMIT to EVERY simulator. No exceptions.

There is no such thing as being able to pile high-poly scenery stuff deep n' wide, fill the yards with high-poly/big texture rolling stock and use high-poly/big texture engines in multiples, place high-poly/big texture rolling stock all over in loose consists, etc., etc., and expect good performance within the sim, and stable performance when using the tools.

It is a never ending cycle: A better platform comes along that allows more head room, and the modeler's, route builders, et al, immediately cram more polys/big textures into it and we're right back where we were: Performance suffers.

Good performance must be planned for from the get-go and then one must build accordingly.

[Genma Saotome]

But what constitutes good performance varies from one PC to another and so there is no standard from the hardware & OS... and it varies from one individual to another as well.

Because of that you simply cannot write a "rule" that says this combination of polys & textures constitutes an acceptable limit and that combination over there does not.

[Coonskin]

Agreed, Dave. That's why I said:

"Good performance must be planned for from the get-go and then one must build accordingly."

Building a route with today's mid-range PC will likely result in it getting constipated if the route builder is trying to use all the latest high-poly/big-texture route building items in addition to high-poly/big-texture equipment, in conjunction with heavily populated tiles. Going to be tough for those with mid-range computers to run the latest/greatest routes/equipment/etc. Recent threads on the poor performance (due to extreme resource consumption) of the recent C&O route that came with "Trainz: A New Era" illustrates my theory.

However, my approach is a very unpopular approach. The vast majority of simmers want maximum EVERYTHING, and the modeler's themselves get caught up in excessive detail, or trying to keep up with the other modelers that are into excessive detail, hence ever-increasing complexity and resource consumption. No real answer for the cycle. Personally, I'm trying to set my personal performance versus details thresholds and stick with it.

[DRelyea]

Hi,

The .bin did not eliminate the tile object count, it only pushed it higher.

The Gateway (of all things) XPSP3 tower prior to my current tower, the limit was past 2700. I didn't find the max before the Mobo fried. The current tower, a small shop product with an ASUS Mobo, the limit is 2600. Both towers have (had) 2GB Ram, and are using the same 1GB Video card. These numbers apply to MSTS RE.

Trying to push past 2600 get's me a 'tile failed to save correctly' message. The TDB appears to write correctly, but large numbers of objects get removed from the w file. ( w file size shrinks dramatically) Not quite the Great Route Kablooie, but bad enough.

I agree, that the limits will depend on the machine, what services are running, and what the MSTS Editors and Tools loads. It loads much more than many expect, and to me, it looks like it does not clear out an AE preload when one selects the RE.

I also agree about the planning, alas someone forgot to tell that to the Erie, Lackawanna, Pennsy, and Public Service corporation when they put all that track in at Jersey City / Hoboken.

Doug Relyea

[scottb613]

Hi Folks,

Doug mentioned to me that the link above incremented - but - it doesn't seem to work... Has anyone been able to grab then 5-2 version yet ?

Regards,
Scott