Elvas Tower: Activity Loading Hostage - Elvas Tower

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Activity Loading Hostage Can't ALT+TAB during activity load anymore Rate Topic: -----

#1 Inactive_jasondial_*

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 04:22 AM

In older versions of OR, you could start an activity loading or resuming and ALT+TAB back to a webpage or a word doc or game code or winamp or whatever and keep reading or working while the activity loaded, and then 10-sec. or however many seconds later the activity would come up full screen. Now, since x1955 at least, if you ALT+TAB while an activity is loading, it comes up without any scenery - it doesn't load properly. I know it doesn't seem like much but when your making routes or scenery or locos and you constantly need to load the game to check to see if things look right, all those seconds add up. And its boring watching a static load screen that you've seen 100 times too.

While I'm on a rant, I, and surely many others, run Open Rails on a HDTV -- I'm using a 42-inch Panasonic Plasma which really shows the most saturated and deep colors and the sunsets are mindblowing -- the problem is you have to run in 1280x720 so that you can read the heads up display, otherwise the text is too small and unusable. We need an option for large HUD text size in 1920x1080 mode. And the "Resume" button on the latest Experimental menus is too far down and does not show on the screen in 1280x720 or 1280x768 modes. I was stuck with terrible video card crashes in v0.9 for months until I realized I could highlight the OR 'Start' button, then hit TAB once to get the focus on 'Resume', then hit enter to get to the Resume menu. But that's not a very fun thing to do everytime you want to resume an activity.

While I'm on load issues, is there any chance there could be a way to set custom load screens for individual activities? You could use it to give the user imagery and info relevant to the particular activity that is loading. And what about the possibility of using MPEG videos as load screens instead of just an aces? And as always, I apologize in advance if I missed any of these issues being discussed already elsewhere on the forum.

Thank you to all the Open Rails programmers and don't let us users distract you too much will all our pesky questions. You guys are really creating a work of art and singlehandedly saving a lot of people's favorite hobby in the process. Whatever you do, don't mess up those awesome sunsets!!

Jason D.

#2 User is offline   James Ross 

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 04:51 AM

View Postjasondial, on 21 February 2014 - 04:22 AM, said:

Now, since x1955 at least, if you ALT+TAB while an activity is loading, it comes up without any scenery - it doesn't load properly.


Unfortunately, this is a limitation of at least XNA, possibly of DirectX too. I have been considering adding a "load windowed, fullscreen when done" but that is the only alternative to watching it load (or running windowed anyway) that I've found.

View Postjasondial, on 21 February 2014 - 04:22 AM, said:

We need an option for large HUD text size in 1920x1080 mode.


I don't care about 1920x1080 mode specifically, but adjusting the in-game UI size is coming.

View Postjasondial, on 21 February 2014 - 04:22 AM, said:

And the "Resume" button on the latest Experimental menus is too far down and does not show on the screen in 1280x720 or 1280x768 modes.


I believe the menu is designed to fit in to 1024x768 but that will necessarily only be the case with the default DPI setting in Windows (i.e. 100% text size). Larger font sizes make it bigger.

View Postjasondial, on 21 February 2014 - 04:22 AM, said:

While I'm on load issues, is there any chance there could be a way to set custom load screens for individual activities? You could use it to give the user imagery and info relevant to the particular activity that is loading. And what about the possibility of using MPEG videos as load screens instead of just an aces? And as always, I apologize in advance if I missed any of these issues being discussed already elsewhere on the forum.


For MSTS content, no. For OR file formats, we could at least do activity-specific images. I don't like the idea of videos at all.

#3 User is offline   markus_GE 

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 05:48 AM

If animated images could be supported, like GIF, that could be a compromise, couldn´t it? (That doesn´t mean it has to be GIF - IDK which alternatives there would be, GIF simply came to my mind).

Cheers, Markus

#4 Inactive_jasondial_*

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 08:22 PM

I guess the points I was trying to make are: more and more people are going to be using flat screens as monitors to run OR and this is something the OR team and route developers should keep in mind; and, route developers (especially commercial rte developers) are going to want the ability to introduce activities with short videos/animations to set the stage for the activity. I currently have 100km of the Trans-Siberian Railway from Angarsk thru Irkutsk and up into the mountains toward Lake Baikal made using DEM and Google Earth markers placed as precisely as possible "on the left rail" (Google Earth's Russia imagery is just now clear enough to achieve such accuracy). I will be releasing a demo version of the route soon but who on earth can read an Activity Description about Siberia and know where they will be and what they will be doing without stopping to do a bunch of geography research first? I need the ability to display a 5-10 sec. video or animated "Intro" that will show them where in the world they are "going" and to set the stage for their actions. I think it would give the user a much richer overall experience and I don't see the harm in giving route developers the option.

#5 User is offline   R H Steele 

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 09:35 PM

View Postjasondial, on 25 February 2014 - 08:22 PM, said:

I guess the points I was trying to make are: more and more people are going to be using flat screens as monitors to run OR and this is something the OR team and route developers should keep in mind; and, route developers (especially commercial rte developers) are going to want the ability to introduce activities with short videos/animations to set the stage for the activity. I currently have 100km of the Trans-Siberian Railway from Angarsk thru Irkutsk and up into the mountains toward Lake Baikal made using DEM and Google Earth markers placed as precisely as possible "on the left rail" (Google Earth's Russia imagery is just now clear enough to achieve such accuracy). I will be releasing a demo version of the route soon but who on earth can read an Activity Description about Siberia and know where they will be and what they will be doing without stopping to do a bunch of geography research first? I need the ability to display a 5-10 sec. video or animated "Intro" that will show them where in the world they are "going" and to set the stage for their actions. I think it would give the user a much richer overall experience and I don't see the harm in giving route developers the option.


Why don't you include the video as a separate part of the package. Zip it all together. Then those that want to, can run the video, others who wish to dive in and run the route or activity can do so.

#6 User is offline   James Ross 

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 01:18 AM

View Postjasondial, on 25 February 2014 - 08:22 PM, said:

I guess the points I was trying to make are: more and more people are going to be using flat screens as monitors to run OR and this is something the OR team and route developers should keep in mind;


I presume by 'flat screens' you actually mean TVs, not monitors, since we're probably all using flat screens there. :lol2:

You also haven't addressed the question of what your set-up is such that the menu doesn't fit. It is designed with these things in mind, as I explained, but nothing's perfect. Identify what's actually wrong so we can fix it.

View Postjasondial, on 25 February 2014 - 08:22 PM, said:

I need the ability to display a 5-10 sec. video or animated "Intro" that will show them where in the world they are "going" and to set the stage for their actions. I think it would give the user a much richer overall experience and I don't see the harm in giving route developers the option.


You want that ability, but I would rather you didn't get it, sorry. And the harm is that as soon as you give people an option like that you will find people complaining and/or demanding an option to override it and then you're back to square one. We may certainly provide more detailed and/or scripted intros to activities but I am opposed to video.

#7 Inactive_jasondial_*

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 01:27 AM

"Other's could dive in and run the activity?" Do you not understand that the 5 to 10 sec video would play AS the activity loads? Telling the user to stop, open Explorer, find a video filename associated with the activity and watch it outside of Open Rails would wreck the flow of the user experience and be a very tacky and unprofessional solution. My suggestion is not to change the software to force everyone to make videos or animations. It is simply a suggestion that adding the option in the future would provide the end user a richer experience. Adding the ability to associate an .ace file with an activity to display while loading would be an acceptable solution in the interim.

#8 Inactive_jasondial_*

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 01:59 AM

@James - sorry, in the U.S. we use "flat screens" to refer to TVs. PC monitors are just "monitors".

As for the current interface (on the X-releases since 0.9), I was certain when I first mentioned it that when I built this computer last April I had not increased the default font size but apparently somewhere along the way I had set the Message Box font to MS Sans Serif 12. After your first response, I double checked and lowered it to 11 and now the interface fits perfectly and the 'Resume' button is visible. But that's not to say that other people using TVs or monitors might not have the same issue. (I have a 24-inch Viewsonic and a 42-inch Panasonic plasma both hooked up to this pc.)

As for your logic that giving people the option to implement video intros will only make people complain that they need an option to remove it, I don't know what to say. It would just be an 8-sec clip relevant to what they're about to do, created and put there mind you by the route designer, not the Open Rails dev team. Anyone that would complain to you about that would be ignorant. Tell them they are ignorant and to contact the route designer, not you. They stare at the OR logo or the Load.ace now -- has anyone ever complained about wanting an option to remove that? One person asked why the load bar at the bottom is inconsistent about showing increments due to OR sometimes not knowing how much it has to load but that's the only complaint I've ever seen (and nobody would make an issue of that again if you'd just change that so that it only shows the 'Knight Rider' style animated bar that just indicates that the program is loading and abandon the bar that attempts to show the exact progress - those 0-100% progress bars are antiquated and just cause people to stare at them with anxiety anyway).

#9 User is offline   James Ross 

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 02:53 AM

View Postjasondial, on 26 February 2014 - 01:59 AM, said:

After your first response, I double checked and lowered it to 11 and now the interface fits perfectly and the 'Resume' button is visible. But that's not to say that other people using TVs or monitors might not have the same issue. (I have a 24-inch Viewsonic and a 42-inch Panasonic plasma both hooked up to this pc.)


Good news that that was all it was. ;)

The ultimate plan is for the menu to move in to the graphical part of the game and it will then have no choice but to scale to whatever resolution is in effect (there might still be an effective minimum but that's all). For the moment, we're just going to avoid making the menu any bigger.

View Postjasondial, on 26 February 2014 - 01:59 AM, said:

Anyone that would complain to you about that would be ignorant. Tell them they are ignorant and to contact the route designer, not you.


Telling users they are ignorant always ends well. :lol2:

View Postjasondial, on 26 February 2014 - 01:59 AM, said:

those 0-100% progress bars are antiquated and just cause people to stare at them with anxiety anyway


http://msdn.microsof...esktop/aa511486 says that you should use a determined progress bar "even if [the] amount of time cannot be accurately predicted", among other guidance. Perhaps there are better ways to show the loading progress than the current bar, but I don't understand why you call it antiquated. One of the most annoying things for me about some other games is the lack of any sort of progress at all, particularly when it takes a minute or more sometimes.

#10 User is offline   cjakeman 

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 11:24 AM

Hi Jason,

View Postjasondial, on 26 February 2014 - 01:59 AM, said:

abandon the bar that attempts to show the exact progress

Don't confuse the OR progress bar with all those others that are rough estimates or get stuck at 100%. Ours is a lovely bit of engineering that gives a surprisingly accurate result.

It's there to reassure the user and for his/her convenience. If you know of research about progress bars and anxiety, then I would like to see it for professional reasons.

Thanks,

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