[Csantucci]

Thanks PA1930, I have downloaded everything and will have a run with both MSTS and ORTS.

[Csantucci]

@ PA1930. I installed routes and loco, and as I didn't know where I could find signals with speed limits I prepared an activity based on the attached path and on engine CP1970. I run it for 15 Km, but the yellow speed limit indicator always showed 120 and the green indicator showed 0, even if the real speed limits varied from 60, to 120, to 70 and to 120 again.
As this route pack covers 4000 Km (!) I wouldn't like to run them all to find out where the two speed limit indicators work. Can you pls. provide me a path where I can test the indicators? Thanks.

 TEst_EBICAB1900.zip (1.58K)
Number of downloads: 574

[PA1930]

Csantucci, on 22 October 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

@ PA1930. I installed routes and loco, and as I didn't know where I could find signals with speed limits I prepared an activity based on the attached path and on engine CP1970. I run it for 15 Km, but the yellow speed limit indicator always showed 120 and the green indicator showed 0, even if the real speed limits varied from 60, to 120, to 70 and to 120 again.
As this route pack covers 4000 Km (!) I wouldn't like to run them all to find out where the two speed limit indicators work. Can you pls. provide me a path where I can test the indicators? Thanks.

TEst_EBICAB1900.zip

Though that's exacly what I was also saying... is that those speed indicators from the EBICAB system don't work fine on ORTS because ORTS don't recognize them well. Here's an example, with CP 1964 (cab is the same), on MSTS.

First screenshot you can see that the yellow next speed is shown correctly, though the green one doesn't show the current speed correctly.

http://i39.tinypic.com/v81nba.jpg

On the 2nd screen I am now diverging on the junction while the max speed on the green is shown correctly as it is 60km/h, though the yellow display now shows that the next speed should be 120 (because on the "coding" in the cab file, 120 is the maximum speed it will show due to the limit of the locomotive. I will "show the code" after all the screenshots)- though this is because of MSTS "limitation", because a new and higher speed should not be shown on the yellow display.

http://i43.tinypic.com/24y5lxg.jpg

3rd screen I made a little "test" to show that if I changed a junction the signal would make a limit speed of 30km/h, and then the yellow display shows it correctly as 30km/h.

http://i44.tinypic.com/a9skuh.jpg

4th screen its on the same place but with the juction set for a "direct" route, so then both displays show 120km/h but once again its a case where the yellow should be off and the green should show 100km/h [current speed limit] although it keeps showing 120 because the previous signal didn't have any speed limitation set. [there was an extra signal, not the same as the 1st and 2nd screens]

http://i42.tinypic.com/2ivgoi1.jpg

So here's the "coding" part on the cab for the current EBICAB system implemented on the loco:

Digital (
			Type ( SPEEDLIM_DISPLAY DIGITAL )
			Position ( 236 287 24 12 )
			ScaleRange ( 0 120 )
			Accuracy ( 0 )
			AccuracySwitch ( 0 )
			LeadingZeros ( 0 )
			Justification ( 3 )
			PositiveColour ( 0
				ControlColour ( 255 200 0 )
			)
			NegativeColour ( 0 )
			DecreaseColour ( 0 )
			Units ( KM_PER_HOUR )
		)
		Digital (
			Type ( SPEEDLIMIT DIGITAL )
			Position ( 290 287 24 12 )
			ScaleRange ( 0 120 )
			Accuracy ( 0 )
			AccuracySwitch ( 0 )
			LeadingZeros ( 0 )
			Justification ( 3 )
			PositiveColour ( 0
				ControlColour ( 128 255 128 )
			)
			NegativeColour ( 0 )
			DecreaseColour ( 0 )
			Units ( KM_PER_HOUR )
		)

Knowing this code, I see that ORTS is only reading one of the displays, and the one ORTS reads is the yellow one, but in ORTS the yellow one works basically like the green one should, though meanwhile ORTS doesn't read the real green one and only shows 0. I remember seeing something on the log file about this but I've checked the log-file and nothing was there so I don't know what's causing that problem. Here's another couple of screens taken on ORTS on the same place:
1st screen shows probabbly what you saw when you tried it... green display only shows 0 on all screens, though the yellow works as how the green display should work... it shows you current speed limit and not the next speed limit.

http://i39.tinypic.com/2jf0h6v.png

2nd screen I am reaching the signal where I should get a new speed limit of 30km/h, but the yellow display only shows actual speed of 60km/h.

http://i43.tinypic.com/izq0m1.png

3rd screen is all the same as above, but shows 30km/h since the train is on a 30km/h zone.

http://i42.tinypic.com/25pgx9c.png

4th screen the train is now on the 100km/h zone so again the yellow one shows the current maximum speed and the green which should that is off instead.

http://i43.tinypic.com/5tyxxk.png

So with this big case, we can take a conclusion that:

MSTS doesn't work 100% fine but as you can see, it does work semi-fine within MSTS limitations...
ORTS doesn't also work 100% fine, but at least one of the displays is suposdely working properly!

Now I don't know what's missing in ORTS, if its either that parameter not recognized for the green display and the yellow display is read as an "actual speed limit" instead of next speed limit...

Path chosen was from Chalindrey to Toul. (comes included on the original paths for the route if I am not mistaken). :) Name of the path should be: TRF-5148-Chalindrey-Toul.pat

[Csantucci]

Thanks, sorry, I wasn't clear. I referred to a MSTS run and not to an ORTS run. Now I will test with the path you have indicated. That seems a good test case, I suppose for gpz too.

[copperpen]

Csantucci, on 22 October 2013 - 02:25 AM, said:

Hi Merwyn,
could you provide the download links for a UK loco and route where this mock-up of AWS works under MSTS? Can you explain how this advanced signal warning is implemented now (correspondence between signal aspects and lamps or similar within cab)? Does it currently work under ORTS? What is missing to better emulate AWS?

The mock AWS system is supposed to work properly under on any route, but does rely on proper signal scripting for best results. If you look at any of the working in-cab advanced signal display systems the method of operation is the same. US style there are colour light displays and position light displays, neither of which requires any input from the driver to acknowledge the info in MSTS.

The UK AWS system however does require input from the driver to silence the alarm if a signal is passed at Caution of Danger. In real life if this was not done there would be an automatic brake application, which is why the overspeed code was used in the UK MSTS AWS system.

I thought this might be a simple set of downloads, but it is proving to be quite the opposite, however, I think I have the right combination now, just have to check it is working.

[Csantucci]

Merwyn,
thanks to search for a proper set of download links. I think it's good to have a reference case to think and discuss about. What wonders me a bit is that you say that the overspeed code ( I assume you mean the OverspeedMonitor block within the .eng files) is used to get the acknowledge/else_emergency_stop function for AWS indications. MSTS already foresees an AWSMonitor block, and I expect that it should exactly provide such function.

[copperpen]

Carlos

If you mean the VigilanceMonitor block, that does not have all of the parameters of the OverspeedMonitor and in any case works in a different way.

[Csantucci]

Merwyin,
no, I mean the AWSMonitor block, as mentioned in the original Eng_and_wag_file_reference_guidev2.doc MSTS reference manual and in Richter-Realmuto's Manual for .eng- and .wag-files of the MS Train Simulator 1.0.

[copperpen]

Looking at the eng file doc by Richter & Realmuto, which I have not consulted for a long time now, all of the monitors could use the same parameters with different data statements according to required behaviour. The AWS system is broadly speaking a combination of the in-cab signal display and the overspeed monitor renamed as the AWS monitor and set up to behave a bit differently. All three it seems use the Z key to deactivate the alarm signal.

It would seem in theory at least, if the cab signal system works and the alerter works then anything that uses both items should also work.

[Csantucci]

Back to the USA: I had a first MSTS test using Acela and USA1 route, to see what MSTS meant.
Acela.eng has SPEEDLIM_DISPLAY DIGITAL in its .cvf file and EmergencyStopMonitor, VigilanceMonitor and OverspeedMonitor in its .eng file.
Results are that
1) in fact SPEEDLIM_DISPLAY DIGITAL shows the maxspeed set by next signal, see picture

It is a bit questionable that it shows the maxspeed set by the signal independently from the local route speed, but so it does work.
2) provided the alerter is enabled in the MSTS options, VigilanceMonitor OverspeedMonitor generates an alert on such signal going to 0 (even if this is not an overspeed state), and the train gets an emergency brake if the train is not at 0 Km/h and the alerter is not acknowledged.

By the way performing this test I noticed two further things:
1) MSTS provides internal and external sound for rain and snow if the related weather is selected; in ORTS I suppose this is not yet implemented.
2) The "OK to proceed" sound does not play in ORTS.
P.S. I meant "Permission granted", sorry.

I have found that the original Series2000 and Series5000 have AWSMonitor within their .eng files. Now I will try to understand how it works.