Memory usage limit in OR? - Elvas Tower

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#21 Inactive_nyc01_*

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 10:12 AM

ChrisD, on 19 April 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

I have used GPU-Z to log the load on the graphics card.

It's well known that GPU-Z is not a good indicator of just how much load is being put on the GPU.

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My keenest wish right now, is a more powerful Graphics Card with the new PCI-E 3.0 interface.

PCI-E 2.0 isn't even saturated yet with games that use modern DirectX 11 game engines, PCI-E 3.0 will do pretty much nothing right now for OpenRails.

I've been running a GTX 680 and AMD 7970 on Z77 chipset based motherboards with PCI-E 3.0 and haven't seen any benefit over using the same two PCI-E 3.0 cards on an older chipset with PCI-E 2.0.

#22 Inactive_nyc01_*

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 10:30 AM

disc, on 19 April 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:

if it would then this problem wouldn't appear in every open world games

The problem doesn't exist with every open world simulation game engine, it all comes down to how the game engine was written to begin with.

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That's why an i7 is absolutely useless above i5 in games

Not completely true since a lot of those sims/games will take advantage of the added cache, so as long as that i7 is running at the same clock speed as the i5 there is an advantage.

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I heard directx 11 have support for multithreaded rendering, but isn't too good in reality.

DirectX 11 (and the latest OpenGL) is about much better GPU utilization. As an example it is possible to get all of terrain/object placement calculations on the GPU which would provide much better results then using the CPU.

In addition with DirectX 11 and up to date OpenGL releases it is also possible for the GPU to process computational physics a lot faster then it can be done on the CPU.

#23 ChrisD

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 02:01 AM

nyc01, on 19 April 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

How do these cards fare with OR?

Right now I am using a Radeon HD 6790 and is considering an upgrade. More shaders and more ROP´s must to do some good, or ??

ChrisD :)

#24 disc

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 04:10 AM

nyc01, on 19 April 2013 - 10:30 AM, said:

The problem doesn't exist with every open world simulation game engine, it all comes down to how the game engine was written to begin with

No, it can't be written otherwise. To draw objects you need to send draw calls. It all depends on how many objects are drawn.

#25 rdamurphy

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 07:03 AM

In reality - and I say that with all sincerity: CPU's have gone from 16 bit to 32 bit to 64 bit from one core to 8 cores and hyperthreading. RAM has gone from 33mhz DIMM to 1600mhz DDR3, and even higher now. MB's have gone from ISA slots to PCI to PCI-E and from AGP to PCI-E 3.0. We've gone from IDE-33 to SATA 3.0.

And guess what? You still have a spinning metal disc with a rotary arm that can only read one bit at a time in a linear fashion just like it did in an 8086 with a whopping 2MB hard drive.

My guess is, 99 times out of a 100, MSTS, OR, or any other game, including DVD and HD video, when you see stuttering, that little green light that indicates Hard drive activity is stuttering right along with it. I'm sure that will improve when Solid State hard drives catch up in price and capacity with the "old school" hard drives, but right now,

If you have enough RAM (I have 16 Gigs), create a RAMDrive and put an MSTS install on it and run an intensive route.

You'll be convinced very quickly.

Robert

#26 Inactive_nyc01_*

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 09:48 AM

disc, on 20 April 2013 - 04:10 AM, said:

No, it can't be written otherwise.

A game engine can't be written to take better advantage of the hardware (in this case the GPU)?

Then how is it that this engine is almost completely GPU dependent and allows unlimited visibility and very detailed terrain while all the while providing excellent performance -

http://www.outerra.com/wfeatures.html

Features Summary-

Realistically looking terrain with high detail
Unlimited visibility, detail ranging from thousands of kilometers down to centimeters
Real time atmospheric rendering
Rendering of vast dense forests and grass
Seamless transition from space down to the planet surface
Adaptive LOD with continuous transitions. Elevation data are preprocessed using special wavelet compression, the required level of detail is extracted effectively on the fly
Partitioned compressed dataset can be downloaded progressively over the web
Fractal refinement mimicking the natural processes (erosion, rocks, overhangs)
Procedural texture generator combining mathematical models and climatic data
Bitmap overlays for specific areas
Vector data - roads, rivers, land class polygons
Uses OpenGL 3.3
Dynamic shadows
Fully asynchronous multi-threaded design able to utilize all available CPU cores
Terrain and fractal algorithms runing completely on the GPU
Stable frame rate system
Supports arbitrary and varying resolution of elevation datasets, refined to centimeter resolution by fractal algorithms
Embedded web browser allowing for direct web service integration
Supports COLLADA 3D model file format
Integrates a Flight Dynamics Model library for high fidelity simulation of aircraft, rockets
Global physics engine for simulation of vehicle physics and collision detection

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To draw objects you need to send draw calls. It all depends on how many objects are drawn.

It's pretty much common knowledge that OpenGL has faster draw calls than DirectX, maybe a revaluation of going down the DirectX path should be made?

#27 Inactive_nyc01_*

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 09:56 AM

ChrisD, on 20 April 2013 - 02:01 AM, said:

How do these cards fare with OR?

Right now I am using a Radeon HD 6790 and is considering an upgrade. More shaders and more ROP´s must to do some good, or ??

ChrisD :)

I put up some screen shots taken with a GTX 680 in this thread -

http://www.elvastowe...e-bernina-bahn/

Although I also use a AMD 7970 which is a very powerful video card I would not recommend AMD if you are primarily running older DirectX 9 games, mainly because of how poor image quality it. Newer DirectX 11 sims/games are a different story.

I just got a Nvidia Titan so when I get a chance I'll post some results with that new GPU.

#28 Inactive_nyc01_*

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 10:10 AM

rdamurphy, on 20 April 2013 - 07:03 AM, said:

And guess what? You still have a spinning metal disc with a rotary arm that can only read one bit at a time in a linear fashion just like it did in an 8086 with a whopping 2MB hard drive.

I went to primarily using SSD's a while ago.

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My guess is, 99 times out of a 100, MSTS, OR, or any other game, including DVD and HD video, when you see stuttering, that little green light that indicates Hard drive activity is stuttering right along with it. I'm sure that will improve when Solid State hard drives catch up in price and capacity with the "old school" hard drives, but right now,

Sounds like your running some pretty archaic games?

I haven't seen HD/SSD activity/associated stuttering in any game for a very long time now. Better memory management in up to date game engines took care of that problem a while ago.

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If you have enough RAM (I have 16 Gigs), create a RAMDrive and put an MSTS install on it and run an intensive route.

I have, but as many others have mentioned over the years I didn't see any real noticeable improvement over say having MSTS on one SSD and the OS on another.

#29 disc

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 11:10 AM

nyc01, on 20 April 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

AMD if you are primarily running older DirectX 9 games, mainly because of how poor image quality it. Newer DirectX 11 sims/games are a different story.

Absolutely not true(actually the opposite is the legend, that amd/ati have better image quality than nvidia). There is nothing wrong with image quality under directx 9 games on amd cards. Actually the api has nothing to do with image quality.

Outerra is a nice techdemo, but if i set the tree quantity higher, the same happens as in or, or ts2013, or arma or every open world engine... as the draw calls reaching one cpu core limit in render thread, fps starts to fall... Opengl is faster of course, that's not a surprise as directx is meant as another vendor lock in technique from microsoft...

#30 Inactive_nyc01_*

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Posted 20 April 2013 - 11:57 AM

disc, on 20 April 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

Really, I suggest you take a good look around in various forums, I'll be happy to give you links. AMD/ATI lost there edge in image quality a long time ago, I've been watching it happen since the day's of the 9700Pro.

I don't run very many DirectX 9 sims/games anymore but OpenRails, TS2013 and few older racing sims and flight sims I run all without a doubt look better on Nvidia. Again just take a look in any flight sim or racing sim forum. UKTrainsim as well as Trainsim.com (justed 2 weeks ago actually) have had plenty of discussion about poor image quality with RailWorks/TS2013 (another DirectX 9 game) and ATI/AMD.

How about the latest bugs in AMD Catalyst drivers that prevent you from forcing super-sampling AA and v-sync on OpenRails, is that completely wrong also?

Quote

Outerra is a nice techdemo, but if i set the tree quantity higher, the same happens as in or, or ts2013, or arma or every open world engine... as the draw calls reaching one cpu core limit in render thread, fps starts to fall... Opengl is faster of course, that's not a surprise as directx is meant as another vendor lock in technique from microsoft...

Have you run the Outerra demo? If so on what hardware because I haven't seen any major performance hit with all those trees on the three different setups I've been running Outerra on over the last two years.

As far as the Outerra/TS2013 comparison goes, well obviously they can't be compared because just like what we've seen with other DirectX 9 game engines it's primarily CPU dependent and is a totally different animal compared to Outerra.

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Elvas Tower: Memory usage limit in OR? - Elvas Tower

Memory usage limit in OR? Rate Topic:

#21 Inactive_nyc01_*

#22 Inactive_nyc01_*

#23 ChrisD

#24 disc

#25 rdamurphy

#26 Inactive_nyc01_*

#27 Inactive_nyc01_*

#28 Inactive_nyc01_*

#29 disc

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Elvas Tower: Memory usage limit in OR? - Elvas Tower

#21 Inactive_nyc01_*

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