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F5 HUD scrolling.

#1 User is offline   mbm_OR 

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 07:27 AM

The purpose of this feature is presenting the F5 extended HUD debug help data in a more usable and visible form, by allowing to browse the info downwards and upwards, leftwards and rightwards, when the displayed info doesn't fit in the screen size.

This scroll feature is available to the next extended HUD debug help data sub-pages:
  • Consist.
  • Locomotive.
  • Brake.
  • Force.
  • Dispatcher.

Also, when a car is selected through the F9 window, the car's brake line in the extended brake HUD is highlighted in yellow.

The Blueprint is here.

Attached is the new code for testing, since the OR x1.3.1-92 Testing version (Weekly update).
Attached File  F5HUDScroll-X131-92.zip (2.56MB)
Number of downloads: 11


Regards,
Mauricio

#2 User is offline   scottb613 

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 08:20 AM

Hi Mauricio,

First off - THANKS - so much for your interest in the HUD and your efforts...

Hah - what timing - I just opened a new Trello card on the HUD yesterday... I even started working on a mockup graphic of what it could look like - to help make my point...

I'm not sure this would be something you’d be willing to tackle - given your present scope of work - but if interested - here's my thoughts on it....

My thoughts only pertain to the default [F5] HUD - as realistically - this is something we use for actually driving trains - as opposed to all the [ALT] [F5] HUD's which seem to serve more of a debugging purpose...

Unfortunately - the virtual cab feature hasn't reached the point where they present all the information we need in an efficient and usable manner - therefore - I would think most have the [F5] HUD open - almost all the time...

That being said - the [F5] HUD screen which is the most commonly used when driving a train - should match the format and look of the other screens we use - such as the Track Monitor and Station Monitor - with the white borders and tinted display background... Making it an actual window like the others so the end user could customize it's placement to suit personal taste would help as well... While the consistency will make for a more visually pleasing display - it's practical purpose - is the white text on the sim background makes it extremely difficult to read - the shaded tint would help this greatly...

Ideally - if we could add say 4 blank lines at the bottom of the [F5] HUD and somehow move the control confirmations - into the new and improved [F5] HUD - it would help declutter the screen while putting all pertinent information in the same place and remove redundant information... If possible - maybe invert the text color - so they stand out when a control confirmation is present...

Anyway - the [F5] HUD has bothered my for a long time - as the text is easily lost in the background clutter... This is just my 2 cents on this - please take it for what it's worth... Thanks for the consideration - either way...

Regards,
Scott

#3 User is offline   mbm_OR 

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 01:38 PM

View Postscottb613, on 07 October 2019 - 08:20 AM, said:

The [F5] HUD screen which is the most commonly used when driving a train...

Hi Scott,

The current HUD window data is displayed using a layered window.
Your suggestion is to display the basic HUD data using a window such as the Track Monitor or Next Station.
This idea seems to be reasonable and useful.

The attached test code use the next keys:
  • F5. F5 HUD (layered window). Official OR.
  • Shift + F5. Nav extended HUD debug sub-pages (layered window). Official OR.
  • Ctrl + F5. New basic HUD data window. Test code.

This beta version allows testing, if all messages displayed currently as messages-window, are also displayed correctly into the new basic HUD window.

Attached is the test code aligned with the Official OR x1.3.1-96 Testing version.
Attached File  F5BasicHUDWindow-x131-96.zip (1.26MB)
Number of downloads: 6

Regards,
Mauricio

#4 User is offline   wacampbell 

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 04:12 PM

I know my opinion won't be popular, but I think the supplemental F5 pages should all be removed. They were added to help program debugging of the brakes and other physics systems and should have been disabled in the distributed versions.

My main reason for removal is to improve realism. The information on these supplemental screens are not available to real train drivers and should not be available to train drivers in the sim either. As for using the F5 screens for operations like uncoupling, or setting hand brakes, again, a real train driver cannot do this remotely from a screen. In the real world, someone has to be sent out to the car to uncouple it or do the other operations. A more realistic way to simulate this maybe using the free camera to travel to that car and then click on the coupler, or the handbrake wheel. Its just a better user interface.


Wayne

#5 User is offline   Genma Saotome 

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Posted 11 October 2019 - 08:30 PM

Needs vary... I use those screens all of the time and the ability to scroll will be an improvement, but my "all of the time" probably isn't the same as many others; For example, when I am trying to figure out what's going on with a new .wag or .eng file I find the information displayed is pretty important. Ditto for understanding the fps effects of primitives in various points of view, esp. after adding a bunch of stuff to a route. Does slack actually work? Have I missed changing the brake values anywhere in my consists? etc., etc.




Are they needed while running an activity? IMO not normally but if your interaction is about content they can be important aids.

#6 User is offline   scottb613 

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Posted 12 October 2019 - 03:35 AM

Hi Mauricio,

WOW - hah - you’ve certainly made my day - I’m very anxious to take a look at this and greatly appreciative of all your efforts... Unfortunately - I’m a lousy “beta tester” as I travel for work and I wont be home to try this until next weekend... I’m hoping someone else takes the time to load this up and offer feedback - in the interim... I’ll certainly make this a priority when I get in next weekend...

:sign_thanks:

As for the [Alt][F5] debugging HUD’s - yeah - I’ve never really used them as a crutch for driving trains - I’ve only used them as a tool for debugging models as part of the model development process... That said - if we ever decided to eliminate them - we’d need to work on the default [F5] HUD a bit - as it doesn’t contain the information necessary to “hand fire“ steam locomotives - that information is only present in the [Alt][F5] screens presently... It’s also less than ideal at the moment - because the control indications necessary are mixed in with the multitude of debugging values...

Regards,
Scott

#7 User is offline   Csantucci 

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Posted 13 October 2019 - 11:54 PM

Hi Mauricio,
thank you for having implemented that.
After having checked it - see picture -
Attached Image: Open Rails 2019-10-14 09-31-52.jpg
I have some comments.
I think that the window is too big, in particular it is too wide. I think that is shouldn't be wider than what is needed for the string in the first line, which by the way could be further reduced by simply writing OR {version number}.
If strings are longer (as in case of the train brake) it could be divided into more than one line.
Also the on screen notifications could be divided into more than one line, or even left out of this window, as is now in the standard OR.
From this second picture you will see that there is a small bug displaying the multiplayer data (last two lines)
Attached Image: Open Rails 2019-10-14 09-44-31.jpg
All this of course IMHO.

#8 User is offline   Genma Saotome 

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 12:26 PM

View PostCsantucci, on 13 October 2019 - 11:54 PM, said:


I think that the window is too big, in particular it is too wide.
All this of course IMHO.


I've not seen the revised HUD... I have a question:

Can the black window be resized by the end user? If yes, then perhaps it could be used for all of the f5 displays by stretching it across the full width of the screen and shortening the height to make a window size acceptable each end user's tastes.

Based on the shared images, above, this looks very promising.

#9 User is offline   steved 

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Posted 14 October 2019 - 01:51 PM

I'm wondering if it would be possible to display these windows on another monitor.
Sorta like TSRE.
While it's being discussed and, hopefully, in development.

Steve


#10 User is offline   scottb613 

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Posted Yesterday, 04:34 AM

Hi Folks,

Hah - thanks for posting some pix - yep - my opinion - concur with Carlo - the HUD needs to be adjusted to around the size of the Track Monitor - we don't want too much of our display covered (original had same issue to be fair to Mauricio) maybe we could abbreviate the text and multiline the brake parameters ?

Yeah - ultimately - we should be setting the stage to move these to an iPad or second monitor...

Appreciate all the interest and efforts !!!

:sign_thanks:

Regards,
Scott

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