[Procopius]

vince, on 16 February 2018 - 02:07 PM, said:

Hi Roger,
Being that MSTS is a steaming kettle of vomit, I'll concede you are correct, but it's a very nice fish indeed. And it comes loaded with the tools needed to solve problems included, far easier to get things fixed.

MSTS never had a manual. OR has an indexed & searchable Manual.
This wealth of information provided by the F5 HUD panels are ignored by some (can't figure why) which is why the forum requests that you provide the OR log with any posted problems.

The F5 HUD provides a large amount of information on pretty much all of the Sims operations. You don't need to run with it open all the time but if you're having problems, very necessary if you want the problem solved.

Study the Manual. It's very well written easy reading. Study the F5 HUD panels, especially if you have a problem as there is so much more valuable information there that was ever 'provided' by MSTS.
That you choose to go with MSTS is fine by me but I've no use for a sim that frustrates more than function.
As soon as I had a system that was able to handle OR I dumped MSTS. ... Well, not completely yet . . .
I still use the MSTS Activity Editor because I didn't want to start a learning cycle for the TSRE activity editor in the final stages of a three year project building an upgrade to the PRR-East Region route. Almost done, in beta now.

Anyway, good luck with MSTS as it's not going to be able to handle the coming releases of rolling stock activities and routes.
example? The PRR route Philadelphia tile 2 x 2 square kilometers contains 4,307 objects.
It's going to end up at about 4,500 when complete. I'm not too clear if MSTS can handle that. http://www.elvastower.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/shok.gif
If it does I can guarantee single digit frame rates at this location.

regards,
vince

Well, yes, I have the manual, and I refer to it. I'm trying to read it but it's out of date and doesn't include recent stuff. For example, in my recent problem with the GTW Holly Sub route, I was informed that "TCS emergency brake was applied...." and then told to press the TCS Emergency Brake Release key. There is no mention of the TCS Emergency Brake system in the version of the manual I'm using (December 2017), what it is, how to use it, or how to release it. I do not know how to interpret most of the information. How do I find out what number of inches of mercury pressure are needed in each of the three locations? For that matter, how do I find out what boiler pressure is needed in any particular steam engine? Some start out with around 200 psi, others with about 150 psi. What I'm trying to explain is, I've been working at trying to understand this for about six months now and there is a lot I have to learn. And by the way, since I've got you here, how about telling me about some routes and activities that work for you on OR? Things that you really love, especially if you can't play them on MSTS. I'd be a lot more interested in it if I could play it, but I haven't found anything other than a couple of the more boring default activities that I've been able to make work.
--
Roger

[vince]

Hi Roger,

Yes it's a learning process. Thing is don't get frustrated.
There's help available and with regards to the Manual the latest version is here
Favorite? Open Rails? Sure, The PRR-East Region. You do need the system horsepower (muscle car) to run it.

You'll get lots of good suggestions. Be careful when installing. One add-on at-a-time! Then test run. ok? Next . . . Instructions need to be followed. If you have a question please ask.... there is no such thing as a 'stupid question' so if something puzzling shows up while you're on the learning curve it's safer to stop and ask rather than slag something in your installation.

As to proper vacuum or pressure brake levels? Sorry but I don't know. Only that higher vacuum holds brakes off. Maybe Google "Vacuum train brakes" and see what come up.
Keep up, your doing fine!

regards,
vince

[darwins]

Quote

I do not know how to interpret most of the information. How do I find out what number of inches of mercury pressure are needed in each of the three locations? For that matter, how do I find out what boiler pressure is needed in any particular steam engine? Some start out with around 200 psi, others with about 150 psi.

Hi Roger,

For vacuum brakes the important figure is the train pipe vacuum - this should be 20 to 21 in Hg for most railways (25 in Hg for GWR) in order to release the brakes. To apply the brakes for a service stop reduce this by between 5 and 10 in Hg. (Judge to apply a bit more or release a bit more as you see speed of train and distance to a stop.)

For steam locos, different locos had different maximum boiler pressures. At the start the boiler pressure will be slightly below maximum - try and keep it close to that level if you can. If it gets much to low the numbers in the HuD will go yellow and then red.
To begin with don't worry too much about pressure getting too high - the safety valves will release any excess. (As you get more familiar with locos and routes you might try to prevent this also as it does waste steam and fuel.)

A very useful number in the simple HuD for steam is Steam Consumption - adjust the regulator and reverser to keep this as low as possible for the speed and power you need, then you should not have problems with boiler pressure getting too low.

Steam loco operation was quite complex compared to diesel or electric operation, you may want to find out more about the real thing.

Regards

Darwin

[Procopius]

vince, on 16 February 2018 - 09:07 PM, said:

Hi Roger,

Yes it's a learning process. Thing is don't get frustrated.
There's help available and with regards to the Manual the latest version is here
Favorite? Open Rails? Sure, The PRR-East Region. You do need the system horsepower (muscle car) to run it.

You'll get lots of good suggestions. Be careful when installing. One add-on at-a-time! Then test run. ok? Next . . . Instructions need to be followed. If you have a question please ask.... there is no such thing as a 'stupid question' so if something puzzling shows up while you're on the learning curve it's safer to stop and ask rather than slag something in your installation.

As to proper vacuum or pressure brake levels? Sorry but I don't know. Only that higher vacuum holds brakes off. Maybe Google "Vacuum train brakes" and see what come up.
Keep up, your doing fine!

regards,
vince

I tried the PRR-ER (in MSTS) but it requires too damned much payware. I figured it would take me days to substitute, and very often I wouldn't know what to substitute anyway. Many of the names don't indicate what kind of rolling stock is being referred to. Same with Surfliner. I found a small route that does not require any non-default rolling stock though -- the ATSF Marceline Sub route (marcie.zip). I installed it in my Open Rails Content folder, a non-MSTS folder, and was able to run the first activity for about two hours, until I made the pickup and then was travelling in what I hoped was the right direction to finish. The map is a little confusing for that part of the route and in that activity he didn't have most sidings named nor the cars numbered. I also learned that the parameter I need to watch is the brake cylinder (BC) to make sure it drops back to zero. But the point is I now have some activities I can use to learn OR. One question, though, I have the Experimental Option, "Correct questionable braking parameters" checked, though. Is that a good idea? Oh, and I'm running the latest Test version, x4704.
--
Roger

[vince]

Procopius, on 17 February 2018 - 06:36 AM, said:

I tried the PRR-ER (in MSTS) but it requires too damned much payware. I figured it would take me days to substitute, and very often I wouldn't know what to substitute anyway. Many of the names don't indicate what kind of rolling stock is being referred to. Same with Surfliner. I found a small route that does not require any non-default rolling stock though -- the ATSF Marceline Sub route (marcie.zip). I installed it in my Open Rails Content folder, a non-MSTS folder, and was able to run the first activity for about two hours, until I made the pickup and then was travelling in what I hoped was the right direction to finish. The map is a little confusing for that part of the route and in that activity he didn't have most sidings named nor the cars numbered. I also learned that the parameter I need to watch is the brake cylinder (BC) to make sure it drops back to zero. But the point is I now have some activities I can use to learn OR. One question, though, I have the Experimental Option, "Correct questionable braking parameters" checked, though. Is that a good idea? Oh, and I'm running the latest Test version, x4704.-- Roger

Hi Roger,
If the 'required' rolling stock is a problem just learn to make your own activities with rolling stock you pick.
Re:questionable braking parameters. Yes, check it active. Most of the rolling stock in MSTS have been thrown together by modelers who are not computer savvy.
They'll just copy what engine or wagon files they happen to have laying around so bad parameters in these files sometimes get passed along and so become 'questionable'.

Most times I'll d/l a route and delete all the activities that need payware and make my own activities.
I'd respectfully suggest you try building some activities on your own rather than bitching about it. You'll have much more satisfaction with the sim generating your own stuff to run.
But that's just me. I'm more a builder rather than a user finding more satisfaction in that,

regards,
vince

[Stijn D.C.]

Hello,

In case brakes that not release or "slow" release

With passenger trains i have no problems, but thay have max. 12 units after locomotive

With freight of 30 wagons duration of breakerelease is more of 2 minutes.

On TS2018 they is a option like in real to set the brakepressureregime ( P/G/R )

Is simulation of this not possible in Openrails too?

If someone can program this in the code, i wonna ask to program this that the engineer (ENG file maker) can give his brakerelease data too

In advance thanks

[darwins]

Hi Stijn,

Work is still ongoing with vacuum brakes. In the present version of OR release of long goods trains is slower than it should be compared to passenger trains with fewer vehicles. This can be adjusted in the eng file by setting say ORTSBrakePipeTimeFactor ( 0.0004 ) for freight locos rather than ORTSBrakePipeTimeFactor ( 0.04 ) for passenger locos. (The reverse then becomes true that brakes will release far too quickly when you operate a passenger train!)

In terms of time 2 minutes would be realistic for a 30 wagon train to go from 0 in Hg to 21 in Hg - release from a service stop where there is already say 16 in Hg in the train pipe would of course be much faster - around 30 seconds.

Not sure what is meant by the "R" in P/G/R. There is not at present an option for a Passenger/Goods switch in OR.

This should not in any case make a difference to release time for a train with vacuum brakes.

The Passenger/Goods switch would be better described as a Braked/Unbraked switch. The Goods mode was for use when working unfitted goods trains. In 'Goods' mode the brakes are applied more slowly (except in the case of an Emergency stop).

[Stijn D.C.]

Hello,

Sorry for late reaction, i gonna test with : ORTSBrakePipeTimeFactor ( 0.0004s )

Must you change ORTSBrakeServiceTimeFactor & ORTSBrakeEmergencyTimeFactor values too for freight?


Thing is to that this locomotive drive with freight & with passenger

Is there no .Wag file brake data too for have the perfect Freight wagon too incase braking (realistic)


Greetz,


Stijn

[Coolhand101]

Stijn D.C., on 21 July 2018 - 04:23 PM, said:

Hello,

Sorry for late reaction, i gonna test with : ORTSBrakePipeTimeFactor ( 0.0004s )

Must you change ORTSBrakeServiceTimeFactor & ORTSBrakeEmergencyTimeFactor values too for freight?


Thing is to that this locomotive drive with freight & with passenger

Is there no .Wag file brake data too for have the perfect Freight wagon too incase braking (realistic)


Greetz,


Stijn

I have been using a lot of freight activities recently ( Coal and stone loading /unloading ). With 30 or more wagons, i find i can increase the brake cylinder for application, but brake cylinder release is quite slow and is not linked to normal MSTS parameters.

There are three ways:

Air twin pipe - you can adjust normal MSTS parameters for release.

Air single pipe - turn off gradual brake release - These wagons have no distributor for partial release, the brake cylinder releases quicker with this unchecked off. However make sure your auxiliary reservoir recharge rate on the engine is set for 20 - 30 seconds to fully recharge, otherwise you will not have full braking capacity if you apply the brake before this time.

OR Brake factor/service/etc settings - these require trail and error to get the required timings your after.

Air single pipe is the most commonly used for older freight wagons.

With engines that work passenger and freight, i personally use two different engine files. However as most passenger trains don't have more that 12 - 15 coaches, i would say the brake release set up for freight, should work quicker. Application is another matter and may indeed require the ORTS brake parameters. But from what i can tell, if the brake application on the engine is set for passenger, most older freight wagons are set for a low brake application and will always largely lag behind the leading engine anyway!

I know a developer wanted to make the gradually release brakes force off by a parameter in the ENG file, if using ASP trains.

Thanks

[Stijn D.C.]

For moment i use this on .wag:

   	comment(-------- Freinage --------)

	BrakeEquipmentType 							( "Handbrake, Triple_valve, Auxilary_reservoir, Emergency_brake_reservoir" ) 
	BrakeSystemType 							( "Air_single_pipe" ) 
	MaxBrakeForce 								( 30kN ) 
	MaxHandbrakeForce 							( 19kN ) 
	NumberOfHandbrakeLeverSteps 						( 100 ) 
	TripleValveRatio 							( 2.5 ) 
	MaxReleaseRate 								( 42 ) 
	MaxApplicationRate 							( 21 ) 
	MaxAuxilaryChargingRate 						( 72 ) 
	EmergencyResCapacity 							( 25 ) 
	EmergencyResChargingRate 						( 25 ) 
	EmergencyBrakeResMaxPressure 						( 72 ) 
	BrakeCylinderPressureForMaxBrakeBrakeForce 				( 72 ) 
	)
)