[steamer_ctn]

In the main HUD view the Train brake has additional information to show the BC pressure, etc.

When operating the engine (independent) brake in conjunction with the train brake this can become confusing as it is not clear whether the BC pressure shown in the train brake line is the value for the train or the engine brake.

Can we undertake a minor change, and add the engine BC pressure to the Engine brake line, and ensure that the Train brake line only displays the train brake figures and not the engine BC pressures?

I suspect that this would require the train brake to monitor only BC values from the wagons, whereas the engine brake will monitor the BC values from the lead locomotive.

IMO this would make braking easier if this information was more readily available.

Thanks

[gpz]

Isn't the brake cylinder the same, either is operated by train brake controller of engine brake controller? If it is, then brake cylinder pressure cannot be separated, it is just simply the brake cylinder pressure, not the controller setting. Can BC pressure differ wagon-by-wagon? The main air brake line pressure, however, is different if one uses the train brake, as opposed to using the engine brake.

[copperpen]

BC of train brake and engine brake can be different, depending on how much of the engine brake is being used. For instance, I can have a full train brake application showing a BC of 64, but if my engine brake is not full on, its BC will be lower. This shows when the train brake is released, but engine brake remains on.

This however IMO does not warrant having a BC next to the engine brake because unless using dynamics with the engine brakes bailed off, the BC is for the whole train including the engine/s with the full train brake over-riding the engine brake application.

[gpz]

copperpen, on 17 March 2016 - 03:49 AM, said:

BC of train brake and engine brake can be different, depending on how much of the engine brake is being used. For instance, I can have a full train brake application showing a BC of 64, but if my engine brake is not full on, its BC will be lower. This shows when the train brake is released, but engine brake remains on.

Please note I wasn't speaking about the BC pressure, I was speaking about the BC equipment being the same. So it is not possible to measure the same equipment's pressure, of how much of it belongs to one type of braking operation, and how much to the other, in rate.

[disc]

In reality there are no different cylinders for engine or trainbrake, all use the same equipment, just the control is different. In game two pressures are computed, and the higher of them will be the final BC pressure.

[steamer_ctn]

I agree that the equipment is the same.

My suggestion was about providing better visibility to assist the player in operating the two braking systems on the train (train and independent (engine) brakes).

The BC value shown against the train brake at the moment appears to be taken from the "lead" locomotive.

This if the train brake is released, and the independent brake is applied this value may be non-zero. This is misleading as the train brake is in reality released, and all the wagons in the train have zero BC values.

When using a combination of train brake, and engine brake it would be helpful to see the different BC pressure applied to each as this would assist the player to asses how "hard" they have applied each of the brakes.

Thus I would suggest that the following values of BC should be displayed on the main HUD:

Train brake -- BC from a wagon
Engine brake -- BC from the lead locomotive.

These values are differentiated in the extended HUD for braking, so hopefully they can be carried over to the main HUD.

[copperpen]

I still do not see the need. The engine or independent brake shows what percentage of it is in use. Common sense would suggest that if the engine brake is showing 50% applied, there will still be brakes applied on the engine even if the train brake is released.

[steamer_ctn]

copperpen, on 17 March 2016 - 02:13 PM, said:

I still do not see the need. The engine or independent brake shows what percentage of it is in use. Common sense would suggest that if the engine brake is showing 50% applied, there will still be brakes applied on the engine even if the train brake is released.

In the screenshot below the train brake implies that all BC have 14 psi (as they should all be balanced if the train brake is actually on).

Whereabouts should the "50%" appear for the engine brake?

Thanks

Attached thumbnail(s)

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[Lindsayts]

steamer_ctn, on 17 March 2016 - 02:27 PM, said:

In the screenshot below the train brake implies that all BC have 14 psi (as they should all be balanced if the train brake is actually on).

In fact it does not show the train brakes are on, BP pressure is stated as 70psi (train brake line entry) so there is no drop in the train brake line.
I must say though without the entries for the individual wagons its not particularly clear.

Quote

Whereabouts should the "50%" appear for the engine brake?

Thanks

I assume the best spot would be after the engine brake status in the basic hud display. A problem here is in normal driving I do not like to use the part of the hud as its not displayed like this is a real loco.

If any improvement is required I am not sure, a technique a regular use when driving loco hauled passes is when a train is stopped at a station I apply the engine brake and release the train brakes, as this allows for a quicker take off. Note this method is used by at least 1 driver on my local country pass line. In this case one can clearly see what is happenning by the Brake Cylinder and the Brake line gauges.
Note: All my locos have high res 2D cabviews to allow the gauges to be read accuartely, its quite possible that in some low res cabviews such info will not be clearly readable and the hud needs to be used. This is one of the circumstances that in fact led me into researching the possibilty of high res cabs, I found not being able to clearly read gauges was a major problem.

LIndsay

[atsf37l]

copperpen, on 17 March 2016 - 02:13 PM, said:

I still do not see the need. The engine or independent brake shows what percentage of it is in use. Common sense would suggest that if the engine brake is showing 50% applied, there will still be brakes applied on the engine even if the train brake is released.

When running steam it is essential (in the real world) to bail off the driver brakes of the locomotive when braking down a grade so the tires don't overheat and come off the wheels [the tires don't overheat in the sim. :) ]. Therefore, it is normal to bail off the driver brake cylinders as soon as you make a holding set on a downgrade. This results in the 0 entry in the BC field of the train brake line. It is, of course possible to clutter up the whole screen using the Shift-F5 command - three times - to check the BC pressure but it would be much more helpful to see that in the minimized HUD and the engine brake cylinder pressure on the Engine brake line.

OBTW, the tender is included in the bail off of the engine brake which is not prototypical for US steam. Only the driver brake cylinders should be reduced with the bail off command. Tender wheels don't have separate tires to worry about overheating. So the engine brake (the ] key) should set up the brakes on the engine and tender but the bail off (the / key) should only release the brakes on the engine alone.

In so doing, the prototypical action is preserved. Loco brakes are lost when they are bailed off (or cut out as in the case with a locomotive equipped with a 'mountain cock' which closes off the air pipe to the brake cylinders - common on mountain railroads) but the tender retains it's brakes as part of the train brakes. In the absence of a train line application the tender brakes work in concert with the locomotive brake, separate from the train, but a trainline reduction overrides the 'loco brake' application. It's all in the way the tender is plumbed. :bigboss: