[steamer_ctn]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the feedback.

For the overturning, I was thinking of breaking the coupler, regardless of the forces on the coupler (as I am not comfortable how accurate the calculated forces are).

In looking at this change, I was wondering how realistic the coupler forces were calculated by OR. If everything was correctly set up (ie the coupler breaking force in the WAG file, then the coupler should break when the forces are excessive, ie exceeding the speed around a curve, etc) in theory without any code changes.

So the question I am asking, do the coupler forces calculated by OR seem to be accurate?

Thanks

[ATW]

Oh good point.

They are good as far as power pulling but the difference I don't really see in coupler added stress are around a curve are curve frictions adding additional stress to them.

[ATW]

As well as couplers stress should be added in addition to tonnage mass force of cars/locos cresting a grade? I started my long 9k Ton 9k foot train stopped on a 2% grade upward where most of my rear half tonnage force was pulling down reverse where my headend heavy portion of cars an locos was over crest downward 1.8% grade had little effect on couplers with its head end mass when I released the brakes an no power applied. 4 locos 200 Ton each an enough heavy cars on headend with even independents set cresting down grade should be additional stress force with coupler limits being 300lbs limit force if i'm not mistaken?

[copperpen]

Far as I know coupler break will only happen if they have correct data. I can certainly break mine using more than notch 3 on the throttle using 3 sd70-ace on a 10K train on the level. I don't think a stationary force would break, but excessive throttle on that train would have broken a coupler.

[ATW]

Yea I broke my knuckle trying to overcome the roll back an pull cresting the hill in run 5 with 3 AC44s an 1 SD70. Most railroad rules even state at low speeds to never exceed run 6 cresting a grade because Loco tons adds in addition to tractive effort motion force had me thinking.

[Lindsayts]

The greatest force on any coupling system will come from "shock loads" from some sudden jerk from the locomotive or some other source, such sudden movements are capable of generating huge forces. Some coupling systems are protected from these by large springs, between the coupling gear and the mount on the particular wagon.

One has to be carefull here, any forces calculated will only ever be approximate as its difficult to take everything into account as one has a VERY limited time for calculation (try running a dozen 100 car trains).
Because of the above its relatively easy to get something like this to sensitive and end up with it being turned off all the time.

As far as I can see though the majority of couplings parting though are due to poor maintenance of the vehicle and the track causing vertical missalighnment, it not being uncommon for partings to occur at a change of grade particularly at the top of a grade. The bridge just south of Benalla on the North East line in Victoria Australia is somewhat infamous because of this.

Lindsay

[Genma Saotome]

I am well along on creating my testing route. I dunno if it'll help w/ coupler breaks, certainly for monitoring coupler forces. I've set down about 5 miles of level track to use to get your train up to speed and then, depending on which track you use, a tangent on a perfectly steady grade for another 20+ miles. 1 track is left flat, the next one over is 0.25%, the next is 0.5%, then 0.75%, and so on. Pick your path, place your consist, and go. I used 2t track to facilitate testing AI trains against player trains. It's all very boring to watch but perfect for testing.

Once I get the tangents in I'll see if I can set up something similar for testing on curves. Should be ready in a couple of days.

[ATW]

Having had added 1 ORTS parameter in the past being the unbalanced super elevation on some of my past releases as well as collections of certified free stock, I decided to add some new curve speed related parameters to the majority of my stock an am quite satisfied with the results. I started the majority with my high speed intermodal equipment to stop giving me that message of my train may be derailing under speed limit as well as some over speed that has curves that are still safe an not too tight. Messing with adding an tweaking center of gravity values has shown its self as well as true height size. Route Riter is pretty sweet adding these parameters an changing values instead of 1 by 1 adding them.

I tested through some serious switches, tight curves an yards where some cars overturned an some didn't that had different tons an center gravity values but same unbalance values. The cars that mainly overturned were 20-30MPH above from where they started giving the 1st warning of maybe derailing which was 22MPH leaving out of yards like East Clinton into Iowa Clinton yard close to roundhouse through tight curve an switches an out the other end.

Example of what I have used an added to wag files are:
ORTSUnbalancedSuperElevation ( 69mm )
ORTSTrackGauge ( 4.0ft 8.5in )
ORTSRigidWheelBase ( 5.65ft 3.6in )


Even though I'm still testing things out for various types... Thanks for these new special ORTS parameters to mess with to let realism show an wouldn't mind seeing my overturns end up uncoupling if random hose separation penalty takes time. With MSTS's old activity evaluations of exceeding durability limits where some freight could have been damaged/passengers jostled around a number of times based on expected player performance % or acceleration/deceleration alike limit settings with MSTS Act consist Editor's fragile/durable slider I picture this a sign for future ORTS evaluation performance file in addition to how many switches you ran through with or without overturning?

[steamer_ctn]

I have completed a patch for the curve speed to introduce penalties along the lines suggested in this thread.

The patch introducies the following penalties:
i) When the relevant curve speed is exceeded then the train will break an air hose. The air hose will need to be reconnected and the train restarted.
ii) When the train "overturns" a coupler is broken. The player can recover from this by recoupling the train, and restarting (unlike a real train over turning)

The point at which the air hose breaks for i) above will vary depending upon the "Durability" factor in the relevant consist file. A value of 1.0 corresponds to the curve speed limit as defined by relevant WAG file parameters. Increasing the value > 1.0 will increase the speed at which the air hose will break.

The attached files can be used to overwrite the current version of OR, and allow testing of this patch.

The only issue seems to be that the durability factor calculation for OR and MSTS may not align.

If people are comfortable with this approach, and provide some test feedback, I will commit the change to the live version.

Thanks

Attached File(s)

•  Curve_update.zip (766.64K)
  Number of downloads: 326

[ATW]

Excelent work Thank you for your efforts on this Steamer Peter :)

With these con file Durability set levels I get a interesting challenge under my testing so far:
1.0000 or less I get my train an mostly all affected cars hoses snapping off from first car hose break to rear when first thing that curve speed warning "train may be damage an derail".

1.5000 So I don't get an immediate hose separation from affected cars durability once I'm exceeding cars curve speed by such little I get the separation instead when my train cars physics are exceeding middle max speed from its overturn speed. Example (20MPH is the first pop up of curve speed limit warning an my cars max at that curve on overturn speed is about 46MPH I get a hose separation at around 33MPH)

1.9000 Same but at a closer critical level from overturn speed like about 5-10MPH away depending on wag unbalance physics for durability hitting the curve.

2.5000 or even above 3.000 you are more likely having your hose connections almost infinite durable, but your train cars max overturning speed is reached uncouples the overturned cars at curve means
you have really in imagination derailed.


Tips:
If too many cars have hose separation an you too lazy to get them all or don't see in you brake info hud like it is too far exceeding screen press the \| key to reattach all.

If you want to experiment to see what speed the uncoupling overturn penalty occurs in train without hose separation or even reset an not stop just keep initialize the brakes holding shift an pressing /? key an speed.

Don't want to update all your stock to new ORTS curve limits an tired of the first second warning putting your train emergency from hose seperation is to give high above 1.000 durability levels in con file.



Problem Bug: Your train uncouples an going into emergency an still moving but your broke off portion rushes against you couples back pops up a crash error "PlayerTrain.LeadLocomotive must be Player locomotive."