[Laci1959]

 C44-9W, on 20 May 2024 - 10:43 AM, said:

The 1000 kN is meant as a fallback when the Engine or Wagon file has an unrealistic value.

What does the program consider an unrealistic value?
I want to know some numerical value. I have a vehicle development based on Peter's Advanced Coupling development. Should I delete that setting now?
The performance of the air compressors used in Hungary and manufactured at Ganz Mávag Mozdony Vagon és Gépgyár is much lower than the performance of the American types. Maybe half of it. So is this now a questionable parameter? The maximum train length can be 750 meters from the point of view of braking technology. That's enough for that. By the way, this is an EU recommendation.

[ATW]

I am starting to enjoy these days in pro simulator and hearing what more experienced engineers instructing have to say vs ones I have worked with that warn the do an don't based on what they learned. Some of these have pulled drawbars out basically on cushioned ones with knuckles stabled. The words "Don't yank too much back an forward!" is now learned.

They loaded a heavy manifest with plenty of cushioned slack with all 5 motors on the headend. No matter how smooth I was at stopping the hardest was starting a bunched train gentle in undulating territory. Bellow is a result an learning curve but feeling the sim chair the impacts an grades is virtual fun.



Looking at the results you see the Threshold was not exceeded but some Forces was. Confusion was there but then as they reviewed it they have a threshold for shock forces or shock load and remember sudden negative buff forces changed lightning fast to draft force out towards the middle of the train. So Drawbars an Knuckles have their own sudden shock limit (1 second eye blink) to breaking when snatched too fast and hard. You may have a knuckle or drawbar break at their limit of say 450klbf but if not smooth transitioned from buff to draft forces and a fast runout shock of say 250klbf you can snap it. So the threshold limit I was up against was forces to not exceed 175klbf shock / 250klbf continuous force on level grade and 350klbf continuous on heavy grades exceeding 1.5%.

So roughly you can have couplers, knuckles and hoses have their own separate realistic limits built in a system have its own shock break an continuous break limits. If you wondered why I included hoses is because ORTS use to break hoses like a discipline (It's In Evaluation score) and the fact I been on trains that gone in emergency an walked back to see hoses detached by hard slack but everything else was ok not broke.

Anything else you want me to ask this Class 1 RR professional rail simulator an info to make ORTS some steps closer to more realism?

[Laci1959]

Advanced Coupling on the go.

Hello.

I made a video about the movement of the cars while driving. The cars move away from each other nicely, and close together when slowing down.
That particular switch member is now being made.
Here, in the era of steam locomotives, screw clamps also did this for cars. The locomotive moved the train one car at a time. I want to transfer this to the old cars.

I am attaching the current settings.

Coupling (
		Spring (
			ORTSTensionStiffness ( 500kN 80e8kN )
			ORTSTensionR0 ( 0cm 3.5cm )
			ORTSTensionSlack ( 0cm 0cm )

			ORTSCompressionStiffness ( 500kN 80e8kN )
			ORTSCompressionR0 ( 0cm 0.1cm )
			ORTSCompressionSlack ( 0cm 0cm )

			ORTSBreak ( 1.8e6N 2273kN )

			CouplingHasRigidConnection ( 0 )
		)
	)

[ATW]

Looks like the advance coupler no longer glitches around or have the rail cars slipping with the locomotives wheelslip?

[Laci1959]

 ATW, on 23 May 2024 - 09:34 AM, said:

Looks like the advance coupler no longer glitches around or have the rail cars slipping with the locomotives wheelslip?

Hello.

If this question is about what you see in the video, it is like that in reality. The coupling member has two oval cutouts. They are about 0.08 m long. This means a total displacement of 0.16m between two cars. Cars have that much natural movement. It is due to driving on small radius curves. There are cars whose switch structure is rigidly attached to the chassis. The design makes it easier to adjust the arch. This system was developed sometime in the 1920s in Hungary.

Sincerely, Laci1959

[ATW]

Yea it was question concerning Advance coupling has been fixed or not. When this was introduced years ago it was very impossible and glitchy to pull/push long freight trains.

[Laci1959]

 ATW, on 24 May 2024 - 06:27 AM, said:

Yea it was question concerning Advance coupling has been fixed or not. When this was introduced years ago it was very impossible and glitchy to pull/push long freight trains.

I don't know that.
It may be due to insufficient coupling force.
I thought to see when the first train car moved, what the distance between the other train cars looked like. But then I didn't deal with it anymore. The switchgear of the American railroad cars closes very tightly, as is usually the case with such switchgear.
What I still know from Hungarian practice is that the switching device of standard-gauge railway cars is flexibly reinforced. For this, the switching device must also be animated.
Unfortunately, the animation error has not been fixed. The switch device of the suspended railway car disappears. Which is quite an illusion-destroying sight.

[ATW]

 Laci1959, on 24 May 2024 - 06:39 AM, said:

Unfortunately, the animation error has not been fixed. The switch device of the suspended railway car disappears. Which is quite an illusion-destroying sight.

Yea that error still exists that I temporary gave up on it and the variety of North American Couplers knuckles split apart. Other error is no stock can have long drawbar slack or distance more then 8cm or else the cars behind it will not have coupler forces showing true but fake cushion resistance.

[ATW]

Is this still a work in progress?

[C44-9W]

 ATW, on 29 November 2024 - 06:11 PM, said:

Is this still a work in progress?

Yes. I was distracted by other things, but I am planning to pick this up again.

 Laci1959, on 20 May 2024 - 10:13 PM, said:

What does the program consider an unrealistic value?

MSTS rolling stock has unrealistic values for the coupler strength, often 1e7N or 3e7N. That is 2,250,000 lbs-force and more. Typical for North America is 500,000 lbs-force. The "unrealistic" behaviour is applied only to the scale of the display. If a train has all such high values, the scale of the display would be such that hardly any force is showing.

[Laci1959]

Quote

Typical for North America is 500,000 lbs-force.

Hello.

The Hungarian standard for the interoperability of European railways specified the tensile strength at 850 kN, or 191,087 lbf.

[Weter]

They use sem-auto claw-couplers, while most of Europe - still hook&link with screw type.

[ATW]

MSTS was inaccurate in lots of physics but still had one thing being a good challenge no matter how smooth you operated slack being durability/comfort levels goal set either in activity/consists fragile/durable. That's a good challenge to bring to ORTS evaluation and timestamp/mileposts.

So if countries have a typical limit, why not that be set in ORTS Option tabs at a max threshold no matter how strong couplers in a file are set to break? You cross the threshold you see it in the graph set to a typical max but if you got weak couplers under threshold to break you don't get dinged as not all coupler run-in or run-out breaks in real world have operator at fault.

So if trying to make a graph have a typical max limit threshold, can it be optional to set a max value divided by 4 line values for both run-in and run-out since country standards are in talk? Color coded forces each car should be the couplers health strength nearing to break in red at its max break force. You can have max threshold set for the graph and unrealistic infinite like break forces in train still be green telling you are far from the break limit but have exceeded country standards.

[C44-9W]

Here is my refined proposal.






There are 9 bars on each side of the graph, 4 green, 3 yellow, 2 red. In the center line, blue indicates an engine, white a wagon.

Coupler Bargraph: Shows the length-wise (longitudinal) force at each coupling (rear of each car). This is equivalent to the "Coupler" column in the Forces HUD. Up means pull, down means push.
The graph's scale is determined by the weakest coupler in the train. Thus, red bars may not be a problem if they are not at the car with a low coupler strength.
The scale is non-linear to show more details at the top of the scale.

Derail Bargraph: Shows the sideways (lateral) force at each car (at the wheel flange). Up means pull to the inside (risk of stringlining), down means push to the outside (risk of jackknifing).
The graph's scale is determined by the car (wheel) with the lowest vertical force (which is proportional to its weight). Thus, red bars may not be a problem if they are not at the car with a low force to derail.
The scale is non-linear to show more details at the top of the scale.

Brake Bargraph: Shows the brake force exerted by each car. This is equivalent to the "Brake" column in the Forces HUD. This graph only has an up part.
The graph's scale is determined by the car with the lowest brake force (which is proportional to its weight). There are no yellow or red bars in this graph.
The scale is non-linear to show more details at the bottom of the scale (ie. small application of the air-brakes).

Text Line: Shows the highest coupler and derail force in the train, and the car (number) where the highest force is. The line also shows the coupler-break force of the weakest coupling, and the derail force of the car with the lowest derail force.

The window scales with the length of the train. It has a minimum size (showing the two peak forces), and a maximum size of 1028 pixels. Longer trains require scrolling (shown in the second below).

Notes:

• An alternative would be to scale each bar relative to the car it represents. This would then indicate the risk, rather than the force. The Forces HUD uses this approach for the Derail Coefficient. I prefer showing the force.
• I also considered showing the slack as a graph. But I feel the coupler force graph sufficiently represents if the coupling is expanded or compressed.
• I would have liked to show the grade with the longitudinal force and the curvature with the lateral force. But this is challenging to do with the limited space avaliable for a popup (used while driving).
• The colors are stronger and more distinct in the simulator (than in the included images).
• For details see this PR in my repo.

[ATW]

Very Nice!

Soon as it's tested, released and coded for Web Server it will fit right in one of many multiple monitor displays.

Braking and Derail Coef is going to be a good thing to look at with this. I had a scare last week on a real train I ran in yard when a broke brake valve leaked the BP to not charge above 81BP and worse dropped its pressure to 73BP when throttle was moved to Run2-idle but management wanted it moved down hill an through balloon track worth 33 cars of intermodal empty/loads stretch braking.