[Genma Saotome]

C44-9W, on 16 May 2024 - 09:09 AM, said:

That is unfortunately not how MSTS defines it.

Because of issues in MSTS, legacy rolling stock has break values that are far to large.

Q: Are you coding this with an expectation that MSTS values would be used? Or Open Rails?

[C44-9W]

Genma Saotome, on 16 May 2024 - 09:59 PM, said:

Q: Are you coding this with an expectation that MSTS values would be used? Or Open Rails?

I am trying to accomodate both, but favouring OpenRails (and North American railroads).

At this time, the only thing that matters is the scale of the force graph, and the thresholds that determine the bar color. Rolling stock created for MSTS has an unrealistically high break force. I need to override those with a realistic value. 500 klbf is reasonable for North America, 1000 kN for Europe. I have also seen 750 klbf mentioned.

Although there is an ORTSBreak parameter, the simulation handles it the same as the (MSTS) Break parameter.

[C44-9W]

Going through the ORTS code, I just found that there also is an ImpulseCouplerForceUN. Maybe I should use the higher of the two for the bar graph.

// Test to see if coupler forces have been exceeded, and coupler has broken. Exceeding this limit will break the coupler
if (IsPlayerTrain) // Only break couplers on player trains
{
    if (Math.Abs(CouplerForceU) > GetCouplerBreak2N() || Math.Abs(ImpulseCouplerForceUN) > GetCouplerBreak2N())  // break couplers if either static or impulse forces exceeded
                    {
        CouplerExceedBreakLimit = true;

[Genma Saotome]

Roger, are you talking with Peter (steamer_ctn) in Australia? He's been reworking coupler code for some time now. I bet he would easily point you in the right direction for recent OR, current OR, future OR and maybe even MSTS.

A side note: I recall reading something about the design of couplers and it said they designed the coupler knuckle to be the weakest element so it would break first. It was small so having a replacement in the caboose was no big deal, it was the easiest part to replace, and the job could be done by the train crew.

[ATW]

Knuckle is the weakest link but coupler/drawbars wear out too an have expeienced drawbars pulled out yard switching even spotting a lumber facility. Which will be the standard thing to break a knuckle or coupler or both?

[Genma Saotome]

ATW, on 18 May 2024 - 05:28 PM, said:

Knuckle is the weakest link but coupler/drawbars wear out too an have experienced drawbars pulled out yard switching even spotting a lumber facility. Which will be the standard thing to break a knuckle or coupler or both?

Yes, drawbars do break but think: If there is enough force to break the drawbar would it not make more sense to design the knuckle to break at a somewhat lower force? Small part, easy to fix... whereas breaking something further towards the center of the car will put it on the RIP track, so yes, a weaker knuckle design makes sense.

Drawbar breaks, AFAIK, is usually caused by an existing crack. I have heard of draft gear failing when the acceleration was extremely fast.

[Weter]

Newly-replaced knuckle, worn old brawbar...

[Laci1959]

https://kephost.net/p/MTIyMjI5NQ.png

Hello.

They are not sure that the coupler marked in the picture could withstand the 1000 kN breaking force. Europe, Hungary, Kismaros - Királyrét Forest Railway.

Sincerely, Laci1959

[Weter]

Link'n pin with buffer integrated.
Cute coocoo, by the way.

[C44-9W]

Laci1959, on 19 May 2024 - 12:36 AM, said:

They are not sure that the coupler marked in the picture could withstand the 1000 kN breaking force. Europe, Hungary, Kismaros - Királyrét Forest Railway.

The 1000 kN is meant as a fallback when the Engine or Wagon file has an unrealistic value.

[Laci1959]

C44-9W, on 20 May 2024 - 10:43 AM, said:

The 1000 kN is meant as a fallback when the Engine or Wagon file has an unrealistic value.

What does the program consider an unrealistic value?
I want to know some numerical value. I have a vehicle development based on Peter's Advanced Coupling development. Should I delete that setting now?
The performance of the air compressors used in Hungary and manufactured at Ganz Mávag Mozdony Vagon és Gépgyár is much lower than the performance of the American types. Maybe half of it. So is this now a questionable parameter? The maximum train length can be 750 meters from the point of view of braking technology. That's enough for that. By the way, this is an EU recommendation.

[ATW]

I am starting to enjoy these days in pro simulator and hearing what more experienced engineers instructing have to say vs ones I have worked with that warn the do an don't based on what they learned. Some of these have pulled drawbars out basically on cushioned ones with knuckles stabled. The words "Don't yank too much back an forward!" is now learned.

They loaded a heavy manifest with plenty of cushioned slack with all 5 motors on the headend. No matter how smooth I was at stopping the hardest was starting a bunched train gentle in undulating territory. Bellow is a result an learning curve but feeling the sim chair the impacts an grades is virtual fun.



Looking at the results you see the Threshold was not exceeded but some Forces was. Confusion was there but then as they reviewed it they have a threshold for shock forces or shock load and remember sudden negative buff forces changed lightning fast to draft force out towards the middle of the train. So Drawbars an Knuckles have their own sudden shock limit (1 second eye blink) to breaking when snatched too fast and hard. You may have a knuckle or drawbar break at their limit of say 450klbf but if not smooth transitioned from buff to draft forces and a fast runout shock of say 250klbf you can snap it. So the threshold limit I was up against was forces to not exceed 175klbf shock / 250klbf continuous force on level grade and 350klbf continuous on heavy grades exceeding 1.5%.

So roughly you can have couplers, knuckles and hoses have their own separate realistic limits built in a system have its own shock break an continuous break limits. If you wondered why I included hoses is because ORTS use to break hoses like a discipline (It's In Evaluation score) and the fact I been on trains that gone in emergency an walked back to see hoses detached by hard slack but everything else was ok not broke.

Anything else you want me to ask this Class 1 RR professional rail simulator an info to make ORTS some steps closer to more realism?

[Laci1959]

Advanced Coupling on the go.

Hello.

I made a video about the movement of the cars while driving. The cars move away from each other nicely, and close together when slowing down.
That particular switch member is now being made.
Here, in the era of steam locomotives, screw clamps also did this for cars. The locomotive moved the train one car at a time. I want to transfer this to the old cars.

I am attaching the current settings.

Coupling (
		Spring (
			ORTSTensionStiffness ( 500kN 80e8kN )
			ORTSTensionR0 ( 0cm 3.5cm )
			ORTSTensionSlack ( 0cm 0cm )

			ORTSCompressionStiffness ( 500kN 80e8kN )
			ORTSCompressionR0 ( 0cm 0.1cm )
			ORTSCompressionSlack ( 0cm 0cm )

			ORTSBreak ( 1.8e6N 2273kN )

			CouplingHasRigidConnection ( 0 )
		)
	)

[ATW]

Looks like the advance coupler no longer glitches around or have the rail cars slipping with the locomotives wheelslip?

[Laci1959]

ATW, on 23 May 2024 - 09:34 AM, said:

Looks like the advance coupler no longer glitches around or have the rail cars slipping with the locomotives wheelslip?

Hello.

If this question is about what you see in the video, it is like that in reality. The coupling member has two oval cutouts. They are about 0.08 m long. This means a total displacement of 0.16m between two cars. Cars have that much natural movement. It is due to driving on small radius curves. There are cars whose switch structure is rigidly attached to the chassis. The design makes it easier to adjust the arch. This system was developed sometime in the 1920s in Hungary.

Sincerely, Laci1959