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Hi,
I have been from time to time updating my diesel and steam locomotives with the plethora of new physics options available in OR. I am now looking to do the same for my electric locomotives & EMUs but find reference material quite sparse in terms of how to set them up for OR functionality. The CTN site is an excellent resource for Diesel and Steam physics but does not have much reference material for electrics, other than general wag setup. I am also looking for info into the EMU braking systems supported by OR (pneumatic and so on).
Would there be any such reference available? Thread topics and the like are most welcome if the info is not condensed (in other languages is fine - Google Translate is always there)
Thanks in advance for any insights
Trainer for OR Electric Locomotives & EMUs
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#1
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Posted 18 February 2024 - 10:52 AM
#2
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Posted 18 February 2024 - 12:35 PM
Hello.
Look for DarwinS posts - some number of comprehencive reviews about brake systems (including EP) and EMU/DMU aspects.
Also, C.Santucci - about Cruice Control's implementation and TCS
Look for DarwinS posts - some number of comprehencive reviews about brake systems (including EP) and EMU/DMU aspects.
Also, C.Santucci - about Cruice Control's implementation and TCS
#3
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Posted 19 February 2024 - 01:47 AM
At the moment support for many older electric locomotive and multiple unit features is absent in the main branch of Open Rails.
For the period 1890-1970
Most dc locomotives should have resistances and series-parallel control.
Most ac locomotives should have tap changer control with a run-up and run-down throttle.
Most multiple units should have automatic acceleration.
None of these features are generally available, although I think the French have scripted some of these and they may be available in French branches.
EP braking is described in some threads.
Most older EMU (before EP brakes) need to use Air_Twin_Pipe with ORTSMainResPipeAuxResCharging(false)
Some MU trains in USA, Japan and elsewhere used SME or SMEE brakes which are not yet fully functional in OR.
Modern EP braking using a continuity wire rather than an air brake pipe is also not really possible yet.
For the period 1890-1970
Most dc locomotives should have resistances and series-parallel control.
Most ac locomotives should have tap changer control with a run-up and run-down throttle.
Most multiple units should have automatic acceleration.
None of these features are generally available, although I think the French have scripted some of these and they may be available in French branches.
EP braking is described in some threads.
Most older EMU (before EP brakes) need to use Air_Twin_Pipe with ORTSMainResPipeAuxResCharging(false)
Some MU trains in USA, Japan and elsewhere used SME or SMEE brakes which are not yet fully functional in OR.
Modern EP braking using a continuity wire rather than an air brake pipe is also not really possible yet.
#4
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Posted 19 February 2024 - 02:05 AM
Hello Darwins,
Thanks. After opening this thread I kept researching and updated my brake settings for an EP setup. It all worked fine when I had "correct questionable braking parameters" enabled, but once I unchecked it the Brake cylinder pressure would immediately drop to 0 upon simulation beginning and the triple valve remains always in release state.
Is there available a working EP brake setup with open rails parameters for reference? One that works without "correct questionable parameters" option ticked?
Thanks
Thanks. After opening this thread I kept researching and updated my brake settings for an EP setup. It all worked fine when I had "correct questionable braking parameters" enabled, but once I unchecked it the Brake cylinder pressure would immediately drop to 0 upon simulation beginning and the triple valve remains always in release state.
Is there available a working EP brake setup with open rails parameters for reference? One that works without "correct questionable parameters" option ticked?
Thanks
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Posted 19 February 2024 - 04:03 AM
You might like to download this: https://www.dropbox....filw8uvv5m&dl=0
It needs to be updated with more recent OR parameters, but the EP brakes do work on all the examples in that pack.
Hopefully if you copy from there your trains will work!
If you still have problems post some examples of your eng or wag files and I will look at them.
It needs to be updated with more recent OR parameters, but the EP brakes do work on all the examples in that pack.
Hopefully if you copy from there your trains will work!
If you still have problems post some examples of your eng or wag files and I will look at them.
#6
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Posted 20 February 2024 - 05:34 AM
Hello Darwins,
Thank you again for your prompt assistance and feedback! I found the cause of my issue being that I had specified a distributor and omitted a triple valve in the brake equipment.
Now I will go thru the rest of your stock to see how they work. This will keep me busy for some time to come.
On the side I also started delving into the "brake improvements" thread. Another rabbit hole to dive into!
Thank you again for your prompt assistance and feedback! I found the cause of my issue being that I had specified a distributor and omitted a triple valve in the brake equipment.
Now I will go thru the rest of your stock to see how they work. This will keep me busy for some time to come.
On the side I also started delving into the "brake improvements" thread. Another rabbit hole to dive into!
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Posted 20 February 2024 - 12:57 PM
darwins, on 19 February 2024 - 01:47 AM, said:
At the moment support for many older electric locomotive and multiple unit features is absent in the main branch of Open Rails.
For the period 1890-1970
Most dc locomotives should have resistances and series-parallel control.
Most ac locomotives should have tap changer control with a run-up and run-down throttle.
Most multiple units should have automatic acceleration.
None of these features are generally available, although I think the French have scripted some of these and they may be available in French branches.
EP braking is described in some threads.
Most older EMU (before EP brakes) need to use Air_Twin_Pipe with ORTSMainResPipeAuxResCharging(false)
Some MU trains in USA, Japan and elsewhere used SME or SMEE brakes which are not yet fully functional in OR.
Modern EP braking using a continuity wire rather than an air brake pipe is also not really possible yet.
For the period 1890-1970
Most dc locomotives should have resistances and series-parallel control.
Most ac locomotives should have tap changer control with a run-up and run-down throttle.
Most multiple units should have automatic acceleration.
None of these features are generally available, although I think the French have scripted some of these and they may be available in French branches.
EP braking is described in some threads.
Most older EMU (before EP brakes) need to use Air_Twin_Pipe with ORTSMainResPipeAuxResCharging(false)
Some MU trains in USA, Japan and elsewhere used SME or SMEE brakes which are not yet fully functional in OR.
Modern EP braking using a continuity wire rather than an air brake pipe is also not really possible yet.
Hello Darwin,
I was going thru your examples and comparing with some reference material on EP brakes.
The Indian Railways MEMU braking I am trying to emulate seems very similar to that used in UK in the 70s. Namely:-
- an EP system supplied by the main reservoir/supplementary reservoirs and MR line, directly acting on the brake cylinder
- a redundant non self lapping air brake system supplied by the MR via the brake pipe. A drop in BP pressure results in a proportional increase in brake cylinder via the Auxiliary & triple valve
- The Brake lever operates from Release, EP Range, Lap, Automatic (Air Brake), Emergency.
- Both systems operate independently, and are only simultaneously activated when the brake lever is moved to the emergency position
However, applying the settings from your examples, I see that the EP brakes are drawing their supply from the Brake Pipe. A Brake Pipe reduction occurs throughout the EP braking range, and the response of the brakes also seems very "air brake" like, albeit with self lapping control. The MRPipe pressure never reduces, and remains constant as that of the Main Reservoir
Is this the case that the EP braking implementation is incomplete, and what you have implemented the closest approximation to an actual working system?
Thanks
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Posted 20 February 2024 - 02:18 PM
Yes, it's still needs finishing.
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Posted 20 February 2024 - 11:13 PM
Ah, that's a slight let down :( I started delving into the brake code in case it can be "hacked" in on my private fork, but I doubt it would be so easy otherwise surely already done
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Posted 21 February 2024 - 01:23 AM
joe_star, on 20 February 2024 - 12:57 PM, said:
Hello Darwin,
I was going thru your examples and comparing with some reference material on EP brakes.
The Indian Railways MEMU braking I am trying to emulate seems very similar to that used in UK in the 70s. Namely:-
- an EP system supplied by the main reservoir/supplementary reservoirs and MR line, directly acting on the brake cylinder
- a redundant non self lapping air brake system supplied by the MR via the brake pipe. A drop in BP pressure results in a proportional increase in brake cylinder via the Auxiliary & triple valve
- The Brake lever operates from Release, EP Range, Lap, Automatic (Air Brake), Emergency.
- Both systems operate independently, and are only simultaneously activated when the brake lever is moved to the emergency position
However, applying the settings from your examples, I see that the EP brakes are drawing their supply from the Brake Pipe. A Brake Pipe reduction occurs throughout the EP braking range, and the response of the brakes also seems very "air brake" like, albeit with self lapping control. The MRPipe pressure never reduces, and remains constant as that of the Main Reservoir
Is this the case that the EP braking implementation is incomplete, and what you have implemented the closest approximation to an actual working system?
Thanks
I was going thru your examples and comparing with some reference material on EP brakes.
The Indian Railways MEMU braking I am trying to emulate seems very similar to that used in UK in the 70s. Namely:-
- an EP system supplied by the main reservoir/supplementary reservoirs and MR line, directly acting on the brake cylinder
- a redundant non self lapping air brake system supplied by the MR via the brake pipe. A drop in BP pressure results in a proportional increase in brake cylinder via the Auxiliary & triple valve
- The Brake lever operates from Release, EP Range, Lap, Automatic (Air Brake), Emergency.
- Both systems operate independently, and are only simultaneously activated when the brake lever is moved to the emergency position
However, applying the settings from your examples, I see that the EP brakes are drawing their supply from the Brake Pipe. A Brake Pipe reduction occurs throughout the EP braking range, and the response of the brakes also seems very "air brake" like, albeit with self lapping control. The MRPipe pressure never reduces, and remains constant as that of the Main Reservoir
Is this the case that the EP braking implementation is incomplete, and what you have implemented the closest approximation to an actual working system?
Thanks
Sorry, my files are a bit out of date. The default EP settings are for AAR / UIC behaviour where the brake pipe pressure is always reduced during EP applications.
You can make the alterative system work correctly (as in UK and India) if you use the correct "EPonly" brake tokens. Try one of these:
This is the system used on the London Underground in the 1920s and 1930s
Westinghouse type ‘A’ electro-pneumatic braking system
BrakeEquipmentType( "Triple_valve, Auxilary_reservoir" ) BrakesTrainBrakesType ( EP ) ORTSMainResPipeAuxResCharging( false ) Brake_Train ( 0 1 0.1 0.2 NumNotches ( 6 Notch ( 0 0 TrainBrakesControllerReleaseStart ORTSLabel ( "Release / Running" ) ) Notch ( 0.2 0 TrainBrakesControllerEPHoldStart ORTSLabel ( "Hold EP" ) ) Notch ( 0.4 0 TrainBrakesControllerEPFullServiceStart ORTSLabel ( "Apply EP" ) ) Notch ( 0.6 0 TrainBrakesControllerHoldStart ORTSLabel ( "Lap Air" ) ) Notch ( 0.8 0 TrainBrakesControllerFullServiceStart ORTSLabel ( "Apply Air" ) ) Notch ( 1.0 0 TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyStart ORTSLabel ( "Emergency" ) ) ) )
These are systems used on British Rail in 1950s to 1970s
Westinghouse type ‘D’ electro-pneumatic braking system
SR dc electric units 1951 and 1957 designs
BrakeEquipmentType( "Triple_valve, Auxilary_reservoir" ) BrakesTrainBrakesType ( EP ) ORTSMainResPipeAuxResCharging( false ) Brake_Train ( 0 1 0.1 0.15 NumNotches ( 5 Notch ( 0.0 0 TrainBrakesControllerReleaseStart ORTSLabel ( "Release / Running" ) ) Notch ( 0.1 1 TrainBrakesControllerEPOnlyStart ORTSLabel ( "Service EP" ) ) Notch ( 0.7 0 TrainBrakesControllerHoldLappedStart ORTSLabel ( "Lap Air" ) ) Notch ( 0.8 0 TrainBrakesControllerFullServiceStart ORTSLabel ( "Apply Air" ) ) Notch ( 0.9 0 TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyStart ORTSLabel ( "Emergency" ) ) ) )
First Generation ac units
BrakeEquipmentType( "Distributor, Auxilary_reservoir" ) BrakesTrainBrakesType ( EP ) Brake_Train ( 0 1 0.1 0.15 NumNotches ( 5 Notch ( 0.0 0 TrainBrakesControllerReleaseStart ORTSLabel ( "Release / Running" ) ) Notch ( 0.1 1 TrainBrakesControllerEPOnlyStart ORTSLabel ( "Service EP" ) ) Notch ( 0.7 0 TrainBrakesControllerHoldLappedStart ORTSLabel ( "Lap Air" ) ) Notch ( 0.8 0 TrainBrakesControllerFullServiceStart ORTSLabel ( "Apply Air" ) ) Notch ( 0.9 0 TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyStart ORTSLabel ( "Emergency" ) ) ) Notch ( 1.0 0 TrainBrakesControllerNeutralHandleOffStart ORTSLabel ( "Shut Down" ) ) ) )
SR dc electric units 1963 and 1966 designs
BrakeEquipmentType( "Distributor, Auxilary_reservoir" ) BrakesTrainBrakesType ( EP ) Brake_Train ( 0 1 0.1 0.15NumNotches ( 3 Notch ( 0.0 0 TrainBrakesControllerReleaseStart ORTSLabel ( "Release / Running" ) ) Notch ( 0.1 1 TrainBrakesControllerEPOnlyStart ORTSLabel ( "Service EP" ) ) Notch ( 0.9 0 TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyStart ORTSLabel ( "Emergency" ) ) ) )