[Stijn D.C.]

Hello,

Before i use the ORTSBrakeShoeType parameters in my .eng & .wag files, trains brakes fast.


Now i use this parameters for a carriage (in real they have P60 brakeshoes) - (Mass => 54 Metric t):

    	comment(-------- Freinage --------)

	BrakeEquipmentType							( "Distributor,auxilary_reservoir, Handbrake" )
	BrakeSystemType								( "Air_Twin_Pipe" )

	ORTSBrakeShoeType 							( Cast_Iron_P6 )
	ORTSNumberCarBrakeShoes 						( 4 )
	ORTSWheelBrakesSlideProtectionLimitDisable 				( 1 )
	ORTSWheelBrakeSlideProtection 						( 1 )

	ORTSMaxBrakeShoeForce 							( 115.5kN ) => for experimenting i have do old MaxForce value X1,5 
	MaxHandBrakeForce							( 35kN )

	MaxReleaseRate								( 1.04bar/s )
	MaxApplicationRate							( 1.04bar/s )
	MaxAuxilaryChargingRate							( 1.04bar/s )

	BrakeCylinderPressureForMaxBrakeBrakeForce				( 5.0bar )

	TripleValveRatio							( 2.27 )

	BrakePipeVolume								( 14l )	

Result is in game that i have poor brakes. +/- 35kN on Empty brakepipe.


My first question is, is BrakeShoeType a parameter for American trains only, or for European trains also ?

Because in Europe we use Brakeregimes like P ( Passenger ), G ( Goods ), R ( Rapide/HighSpeed )...


In my old engineering with a locomotive i take the higest Braketonnage for put on MaxBrakeForce, but if i must believe some websites... BrakeTonnes is not same like KiloNewtons.

So first i need to know howmuch KiloNewtons is 1 European Braketon. Google search gives me different information about it or bring me on website with calculators that is not good for this.


Have someone advice with this please?



In advance thanks, Greetz,

[Weter]

Hello.
There was a long thread above "Brake weight" on ET, which have appeared to be very complex and not so straightforward phenomenon.

[darwins]

ORTSMaxBrakeShoeForce ( )

is set up to be the actual force on all the brake shoes on a wagon

This was commonly measured in USA, UK and Australia.
This continues to be the standard in North America today.

This bears no relation at all to the UIC brake percentage or braked weight that is used in Europe. This is based on measurement of the stopping distance of the train in emergency.


Here is an example of the difference. This is for an electric locomotive with P10 Cast Iron brake shoes.

The UIC data panel gives: WA-GP Mass 85t P 40t G 40t Handbrake 20t

For retarding force this approximates to: MaxBrakeForce ( 36.46kN )

In this case the actual force on the brake shoes is ORTSMaxBrakeShoeForce ( 592kN )


This is just one example. The ORTSMaxBrakeShoeForce in kN is generally between 10 and 20 times the UIC braked mass in tonnes for cast iron brake shoes.


We really need to get things adjusted so that UIC braked mass can be entered directly, perhaps as something like this:

ORTSBrakeMode
P (
BrakedWeight( x )
MaxReleaseRate( y )
MaxApplicationRate ( z )
)
R (
BrakedWeight()
MaxReleaseRate()
MaxApplicationRate()
RelayValveRatio ( )
)

[Laci1959]

https://kephost.net/p/MTA5MTgwMQ.png
Hello.

In Hungary, such tables are used by locomotive drivers, car inspectors and brake mechanics. You have to look on the internet to see if there are similar ones uploaded about cars from Germany. All cars in circulation are included. The "Féksúly" columns show the brake weights in tons for each train type. Well, this must be converted as Darwins suggests. Of course, you have to perform two control measurements. I think it's enough to do it for one car, if it's good then you have the multiplier for the other cars as well.

Does ORTSBrakeModeP ( ) already exist or is it just an idea?

Sincerely, Laci1959

[darwins]

ORTSBrakeMode
P (
BrakedWeight( x )

Is just an idea at the moment. It does not exist yet.

It would be good to add this to OR so that you do not need to convert from BrakedWeight( x ) to ORTSMaxBrakeShoeForce ( y )

Then you could just enter BrakedWeight( 57t ) for Amxz and OR would do all the calculations.

[Laci1959]

Last summer, a calculation method appeared in the brake renewal thread. There was a little argument with him.
Calculating that MaxBrakeForce is equal to the formula 0.75 * brake weight + 0.076 * car weight, then if you keep the ratio calculated from the friction coefficients at 1 in the entire speed range, it should
the standard braking distance should come.
The expected braking force A / B * C = The braking force calculated by OR.
A=ORTSBrakeShoeFriction value for current speed
B=ORTSBrakeShoeFriction value for zero speed
C=MaxBrakeForce from the wag file.
Extrapolated from the ETCS formula, the braking force is: 0.75 × 94 + 0.076 × 60 = 75 kN
From the Czech formula: 0.6 × 94 × 9.964016384 × 0.31 = 174 kN
Calculation of restraint:
f=( Bl/Q )×100
where f is the actual brake weight percentage of the train (%), BL is the brake weight of the train (t), Q is the total mass of the train (t).
I found this in my notes. I confess that there is something that is just vague right now.
Anyway, you have to look around on the CZ-SK page. The passenger cars are almost identical. Perhaps those values should be taken over with the associated code to ensure compatibility. With us, more and more people are passing through partly because of the sight and partly because of the physics.

[Stijn D.C.]

Hello,

Thanks for feedback

In case Brake Regime P/R/G.

On the CZ ORTS version they have add a system for it (example CD130)

comment (** hmotnost = 84.8 t **)
comment (** brzdici vaha rezim P = 50t **)
comment (** brzdici vaha rezim G = 36t **)

comment (** brzdici vaha - zde virtualni hodnota max. pritlaku zdrzi **)
BrakeMassP ( 50t )
BrakeMassG ( 36t )
BrakeMassR ( 50t )
BrakeMassRMg ( 50t )


...

MaxReleaseRateP ( 0.178571bar/s )
MaxReleaseRateG ( 0.08bar/s )

MaxApplicationRateP ( 0.754717bar/s )
MaxApplicationRateG ( 0.18bar/s )




But when i testing that, trains stay very quick on zero speed.

[Laci1959]

Stijn D.C., on 17 January 2024 - 03:18 AM, said:

But when i testing that, trains stay very quick on zero speed.

Did you test it in the CZ_SK version or in the official release or in the developer version? Maybe Icik built something into the code.

[Lamplighter]

Laci1959, on 17 January 2024 - 04:38 AM, said:

Did you test it in the CZ_SK version or in the official release or in the developer version? Maybe Icik built something into the code.

Not maybe, but for sure. Braking conditions are adapted to Europe and UIC methods. And it is an adjustment within the code, that is why the OR is distinguished by the adjective CZ/SK.
Compatibility with the standard OR is only partial - that is, vehicles set up for OR cannot use all OR CZ/SK options. Vehicles set for OR CZ/SK will not function correctly under standard OR.

[Stijn D.C.]

Laci1959, on 17 January 2024 - 04:38 AM, said:

Did you test it in the CZ_SK version or in the official release or in the developer version? Maybe Icik built something into the code.

Both, stable version on MSTS-RW.cz & version Github. (CD 130 with ORTZ freight WAG files, or Vectron with passenger ORCZ WAG files).