[Csantucci]

Siebren, on 04 December 2023 - 01:59 AM, said:

For me, programming is a hobby now, not work. If I liked planned work, time schedules, stand up meetings for progress reporting, bosses asking when I'm finished, I would have continued working after my retirement.

Siebren.

:I-Agree:

[Jack@Elvas]

ATSF3751, on 03 December 2023 - 09:02 AM, said:

...Yes we have 3D Cabs...

Brandon

I'd make the argument that we really do not have 3D cabs in open rails!

What I mean here is, there's no download people can grab that "Just works"

TrainSimulations.net are the closest to a professional commercial route designed for Open Rails, but those don't have 3D cabs.

It would be a great step forward for OpenRails if a feature it already had was usable by people trying out the sim for the first time.  

[VAPOR3D]

Jack@Elvas, on 04 December 2023 - 10:33 AM, said:

I'd make the argument that we really do not have 3D cabs in open rails!

What I mean here is, there's no download people can grab that "Just works"

TrainSimulations.net are the closest to a professional commercial route designed for Open Rails, but those don't have 3D cabs.

It would be a great step forward for OpenRails if a feature it already had was usable by people trying out the sim for the first time.  

One example: https://vapor3d.punc...t/feve2400.html

[cjakeman]

Eldorado.Railroad, on 03 December 2023 - 08:15 AM, said:

I post this here as a reminder to both users and (new,wannbe,old) developers what Open Rails is up against. I often see trends in this project come and go, and with that, I feel that we lose sight of what is important.

Steve's analysis of commercial software is spot on and he posts with the prospect of a paid-for contribution being submitted.

For our volunteer developers, some things are a little different.For example, oOur developers are also users, which is rarely so in the commercial world.

Jonatan, on 03 December 2023 - 11:35 AM, said:

As Steve and Brandon have pointed out, this is untenable so I keep out of it and have stopped requesting possible improvements or abilities, the coders can do as they wish. But the update that renders MSTS-style content unusable will be where I draw the line.

Relax, our stated policy is not to do this.

For commercial software, breaking changes which render old content incompatible can be profitable as it leads to fresh sales (and the code is simpler). In Open Rails, we try very hard to retain compatibility and we live with more complicated code as a result.

ATSF3751, on 03 December 2023 - 12:10 PM, said:

What I would like to see from the coding side of things is working together to get the bugs worked out before going on to the next project or update. The way I see it and it has already been mentioned but the coders have to work together to get things done and be more pro active! Why do we have more then one coder working on the same coding? It would be much more productive to make a list on what others are going to work on and when?

I am all for teamwork but talk of "the coders have to" is not helpful and I see this viewpoint expressed a lot also on Trainsim.com.

We are not anonymous paid staff, toiling in a back room to deliver what the management demands! Rather we are volunteers who read and post here and try to do our best for Open Rails and this community.

[EDIT: Link below corrected. Thanks, Mauricio]
If I look back at the last 12 months we have contributions from:
Carlo, Cedric, Cesar, James, Looky (Gergely), Mauricio, Peter G, Peter N, Rob, Siebren, SteelFill (Phillip)

Don't they deserve our support?

[Genma Saotome]

cjakeman, on 05 December 2023 - 12:52 AM, said:

If I look back at the last 12 months we have contributions from:
Carlo, Cedric, Cesar, James, Looky (Gergely), Mauricio, Peter G, Peter N, Rob, Siebren, SteelFill (Phillip)

Don't they deserve our support?

Yes, of course and a THANK YOU too.

I am may be wrong but I don't think the above was meant as a knock on the developers; It was a lot of advice from some career software professionals of points ORMT might want to consider given the fact that (1) a large percentage of people who contribute code come and go which makes it impossible for them to answer questions about their work and (2) some of the volunteers have little experience coding.

Having received those comments the decision is yours as to take or reject each one. The vast majority of us will never see the code anyway so we'll never know what, if anything, is different.

I will note that several people who do code expressed reservations about helping. Surely there are several standalone programs that could be done. From a code perspective they would be, in effect, a green field, so they could write in their own style. A short list of to-do works could be creating an equivalent to anything that won't run under Win 11.

[Jack@Elvas]

VAPOR3D, on 04 December 2023 - 10:42 AM, said:

One example: https://vapor3d.punc...t/feve2400.html

I might be mistaken but don't you need extra software to use a loco? Some kind of consist editor?

The point I was trying to make is that there's no easy, out of the box way to show a new user what Openrails can do.

[ATSF3751]

:sign_thanks: To both Jack and Dave for clearing things up! Of course the coders deserve thanks for what they have done so far and I have stated thank you multiple times in other post I have made! Dave broke down exactly what I was trying to say and I just feel the ORMT needs to start listening to some of the professional coders who are on here along with the ones who play the game on a regular bases!

To me when it comes to the coding in Open Rails, it just seems like a free for all. I am not trying to knock the coders one bit when I say this and yes I completely understand this is an Open Source platform but there should be some structure to the coding.

I have looked at the coding myself and to be honest it looks like a bunch of spaghetti just rolled out all over the place on a table and doesn't seem very organized. I myself have thought about getting into coding and helping out but there are some parts of the coding that is very hard to navigate or even find.

As Dave pointed out many people have come and gone since Open Rails started and the code that they left behind is either not finished or just forgotten about all together.

When it comes to showing others what Open Rails is capable of Jack is right in the fact there really is no easy way to show new users what Open Rails can do. There is no official YouTube Page and there really seems to not be much interest in promoting Open Rails in the short and long term. Yes there is a website but not many people know about it or even how to install Open Rails.

I have seen on other forums people asking how to install it, if MSTS is still needed and even if you can still run MSTS equipment on the Open Rails platform. Open Rails needs to be straight forward when it comes to downloading and getting going with new users and the way it is set up right now it isn't. I for one would like to change that but it will take the ORMT to start looking at the bigger picture for anything to happen!

I am not trying to make anyone mad or start anything! What I am trying to ultimately do is open peoples eyes to the reality that Open Rails HAS to face in order to succeed and survive!

Brandon

[jonas]

For the time being, I only have few question, which results from the following statements:

Eldorado.Railroad, on 03 December 2023 - 08:15 AM, said:

... I feel that we lose sight of what is important.

ATSF3751, on 03 December 2023 - 09:02 AM, said:

... and possibly expanding our platform to open up to a broader audience.
...Then I have to explain what Open Rails is to them and I would really like to change that for the future and get more of the younger generation involved.
...The more people find out about Open Rails and play it the better off Open Rails will end up becoming in the future...
...The users of the game are the ones that will ultimately make Open Rails a success...
...The way I see it Open Rails is really loosing ground with the younger generation ...
... it is time that we all focus on other aspects as well because you can not "sell" a game with physics alone...
...but when playing Open Rails to me it still has that MSTS Feel to it and now is the time we start to break away from that feel and make Open Rails its own. Yes I know all of the coders are doing this on there free time but the coders need to listen to there users and "work with them" to improve the gaming experience!...
...I [also] feel like the Open Rails team has lost sight some times of what the end result should be. Remember Open Rails will never really be a finished game and only be expanded for future development as time goes on!

Genma Saotome, on 03 December 2023 - 11:34 AM, said:

...Sometimes the least expensive and fastest solution is ...

ATSF3751, on 03 December 2023 - 12:10 PM, said:

...It would be much more productive to make a list on what others are going to work on and when?...

ATSF3751, on 05 December 2023 - 12:43 PM, said:

... What I am trying to ultimately do is open peoples eyes to the reality that Open Rails HAS to face in order to succeed and survive!...

My questions are: Aren't these marketing maxims and has this community come together here for the main goal of ORs success and survival? Who knows what the result of OR should be or what's OR for?

What I am rhetorically asking with this is whether OR is not already a success and has survived? At the very least, it has helped "the world's largest range of digital content" to survive.

This is the moto on the OR site so far: "Totally free train simulator that supports the world's largest range of digital content."

The real question here seems to me to be where the journey should go and whether OR should be considered a failure because the younger generation hardly knows it?

Greetings
Jonas

[ATSF3751]

I do not see Open Rails as a failure as it has done exactly what it was designed to do and that is keep MSTS content going for the future. Now the question is where do we want to see Open Rails go in the future? Seeing that some MSTS content is over 20 years old and has stood the test of time in the gaming world and still able to operate on today's computers is a mericle in its self. Yes MSTS its self may be dead but its legacy is still strong thanks to Open Rails and the coders that made it happen. However I do see a much bigger picture for Open Rails in the future with today's technology! Yes many do not want to see MSTS content go away and yes I agree but that being said I feel we can still expand Open Rails to be even a better platform for the future!

One thing I would really like the Open Rails team to work on is a consist, activities and route editor!

Brandon

[Genma Saotome]

Hopefully a constructive suggestion: Perhaps with each project pull the responsible person could drop a note into either the News forum or the Developing Features forum and simply comment what they're working on next. No great explanations required.

That can serve as a simple means to keep the end users informed. Yes, they'll reply, some of which will be asking for not the moon but several galaxies. Maybe, just maybe, some will be useful... but the decision of whether or not to return to the thread they started is left to the developer. No obligations.