[joe_star]

cesarbl, on 02 August 2023 - 10:35 AM, said:

I'm so sorry for the wheel problem. It didn't appear in any of the steam locomotives that I tested, and I couldn't notice it when I introduced a new feature. If anyone is willing to help me, I will try to solve it. I would need a locomotive showing no drive wheels for testing.

Unfortunately, due to conflicts with other PRs, the changes were in the Unstable release only for a week, and the bug stayed unnoticed, and entered the Testing version.

I read in the past days some comments which weren't very nice towards developers, particularly for those of us who do physics. I'm a Physicist, and I'm not a competent developer in other areas, so if physics improvements are constantly disregarded, it's better to not introduce anything new. No improvements means no new bugs!

I always spend some time ensuring that my changes don't have a big impact, but sometimes I fail to do so. I apologize for that. I really appreciate when people report bugs in the forums, because I cannot test a feature in all existing rolling stock. However, I feel sad if instead of just reporting it, people write rage messages saying that we don't care about bugs.

Hi Cesar,

Below are some steps to reproduce the issues that I have observed (U 2023-7-21 - 1922) :-
a. Download the harzquerbahn route, stock and activities set https://the-train.de...6-harzquerbahn/
b. Select Activity "HBE01 Passengers for Brockenbahn"

Bug 1 - wheels on steam locomotives not rotating in autopilot mode
c. Once activity is laoded, immediately hit Alt+A for autopilot mode
d. Locomotive 99 will start moving without its wheels rotating
e. Switch back to player mode, the wheels will start rolling
f. Switch back to auto pilot and wheels will continue rolling
g. When the train automatically stops at a station via autopilot, the same situation is repeated

Bug 2 - Missing driving wheels on AI steam locomotives
a. In the same activity as above - switch view via Alt+F9 to any of the other trains in the activity
b. The driven wheels will be observed missing

Notes
- Both issues only happen when advanced adhesion model is turned ON
- I have not yet observed Bug 2 on a player locomotive, only other AI locomotives in the activity

Additionally, I also reported a separate physics issue here http://www.elvastowe...post__p__299306

This issue can also be reproduced on said route with Locomotive 99

[cesarbl]

Thanks! So the key is that the problem only affects AI trains (and autopiloted). Yesterday I uploaded a fix, which is present in the unstable version. If the problem is not fixed with that, I'll try to reproduce it following your instructions.

[James Ross]

roeter, on 03 August 2023 - 02:09 AM, said:

As I explained, I adapted the timetable to run with the update. Because of this, the timetable will no longer load with the old program versions. So I cannot run these tests without a lot of extra work.

Make a new timetable with only a couple of trains to demonstrate?

Did you share which consists these are and where to get them? I might have missed it, sorry.

[joe_star]

cesarbl, on 03 August 2023 - 09:05 AM, said:

Thanks! So the key is that the problem only affects AI trains (and autopiloted). Yesterday I uploaded a fix, which is present in the unstable version. If the problem is not fixed with that, I'll try to reproduce it following your instructions.

Hello Cesar,

I am glad to report that both visual bugs I mentioned above are resolved.

Would you have any insights also into the 3rd issue regarding the net positive wheel and crankshaft inertial forces at high speeds?

Thanks

[cesarbl]

I'm glad to hear that it was solved with such a simple fix.

Quote

Would you have any insights also into the 3rd issue regarding the net positive wheel and crankshaft inertial forces at high speeds?

Peter said he had an idea about the origin of the bug, and he's more familiar with that part of the code, so in principle he was going to fix it. Otherwise, I don't mind looking at it, but it will probably take me more time. Nevertheless I'll have a quick look at it to see if I see an obvious problem with easy solution.

[steamer_ctn]

cesarbl, on 03 August 2023 - 12:30 PM, said:

Peter said he had an idea about the origin of the bug, and he's more familiar with that part of the code, so in principle he was going to fix it. Otherwise, I don't mind looking at it, but it will probably take me more time. Nevertheless I'll have a quick look at it to see if I see an obvious problem with easy solution.

I will have a look at this when I return after the weekend.

[roeter]

cesarbl, on 03 August 2023 - 09:05 AM, said:

So the key is that the problem only affects AI trains (and autopiloted).

That's exactly the same as with the problems I have here - these also only affect AI trains, not the player train.
So could it be that a similar issue as that for steam engines did accidently also creep into the graphics code for other engines? Does this not ring a bell anywhere by those who have been working on the graphics code?

cjakeman, on 03 August 2023 - 05:25 AM, said:

Does this graphic anomaly only appear then when you run the timetable to a certain point?
I wonder what you see if you place the train at that location and run an un-adapted Testing Version in Explore mode.

When running in explorer mode, the train is the player train and therefor not affected. If I run that train as show above as player train in the timetable it is also not affected.
All other instances of those trains, however, are affected, right from the very start of the timetable and at any location.

James Ross, on 03 August 2023 - 09:42 AM, said:

Did you share which consists these are and where to get them? I might have missed it, sorry.

These are BR Class 122 and BR Class 124. Both were most likely downloaded from UKTrainSim, but that was many a moon ago and all details on that are now lost in time.
The class 122 looses it's wheels, the class 124 driving trailers have to do without the front, the interior and undercarriage equipment. Strange enough, only the driving trailers of the class 124 are affected, the other 3 coaches on these trains are shown as these should be.

Regards,
Rob Roeterdink

[joe_star]

roeter, on 04 August 2023 - 02:14 AM, said:

That's exactly the same as with the problems I have here - these also only affect AI trains, not the player train.
So could it be that a similar issue as that for steam engines did accidently also creep into the graphics code for other engines? Does this not ring a bell anywhere by those who have been working on the graphics code?


When running in explorer mode, the train is the player train and therefor not affected. If I run that train as show above as player train in the timetable it is also not affected.
All other instances of those trains, however, are affected, right from the very start of the timetable and at any location.


These are BR Class 122 and BR Class 124. Both were most likely downloaded from UKTrainSim, but that was many a moon ago and all details on that are now lost in time.
The class 122 looses it's wheels, the class 124 driving trailers have to do without the front, the interior and undercarriage equipment. Strange enough, only the driving trailers of the class 124 are affected, the other 3 coaches on these trains are shown as these should be.

Regards,
Rob Roeterdink

Hi Rob,

The issues I saw were only manifest when Advanced Adhesion was enabled.

Have you tested as well with Advanced Adhesion Off?

[cjakeman]

roeter, on 04 August 2023 - 02:14 AM, said:

When running in explorer mode, the train is the player train and therefore not affected. If I run that train as show above as player train in the timetable it is also not affected.
All other instances of those trains, however, are affected, right from the very start of the timetable and at any location.

Thanks for trying that. I am trying to establish the minimum that we need in order to see the problem on our PCs.

In this test, was the code used the published Testing Version or the Testing Version adapted to run your timetable enhancements?

[roeter]

cjakeman, on 04 August 2023 - 11:32 AM, said:

In this test, was the code used the published Testing Version or the Testing Version adapted to run your timetable enhancements?

At the moment, I only have versions which include the timetable enhancements. But as these are included in both old and new versions - with old working correct and new not - I think that code can be ruled out. Anyway, the info below makes that even more clear.

joe_star, on 04 August 2023 - 09:13 AM, said:

Hi Rob,

The issues I saw were only manifest when Advanced Adhesion was enabled.

Have you tested as well with Advanced Adhesion Off?

Thanks for the hint. I have now, and indeed the problem is then gone. So, I think this proofs rather beyond doubt that the issue I am having here is the same as what affected the steam engines, despite assurances otherwise.

Regards,
Rob Roeterdink