[PerryPlatypus]

We are attempting to create cabview with a Multi_State_Display that shows the throttle position for a combined power handle (throttle + dynamic brake) in a GE P40DC locomotive. This digital display should be able to show any of the following positions:
DB8, DB7, DB6, DB5, DB4, DB3, DB2, DB1, SETUP, IDLE, N1, N2, N3, N4, N5, N6, N7, N8 - where DB8 is 100% dynamic braking and N8 is 100% throttle.

The locomotive is set up with a non-proportional notched throttle, and a continuous (no notches) dynamic brake.

First, the following are excerpts from the ENG file to show the bits relevant to the non-proportional throttle:

ThrottleRPMTab (
0 250
5 289.85
11 337.67
25 449.25
36 536.92
48 632.56
69 799.93
87 943.39
100 1047
)

------------------(break)---------------------

EngineControllers (
Throttle ( 0 1 0.125 0
NumNotches ( 9
Notch ( 0 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.05 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.11 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.25 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.36 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.48 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.69 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 0.87 0 Dummy )
Notch ( 1 0 Dummy )
)
)
Brake_Engine ( 0 1 0.025 0
NumNotches ( 1
Notch( 0 1 Dummy )
)
)
Brake_Train ( 0 1 0.0125 0.3
NumNotches ( 5
Notch( 0 0 TrainBrakesControllerReleaseStart )
Notch( 0.3 1 TrainBrakesControllerGraduatedSelfLapLimitedHoldingStart )
Notch( 0.85 0 TrainBrakesControllerSuppressionStart )
Notch( 0.9 0 TrainBrakesControllerContinuousServiceStart )
Notch( 0.95 0 TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyStart )
)
)
Brake_Dynamic ( 0 1 0.0125 0
NumNotches ( 1
Notch ( 0 1 Dummy )
)
)

------------------------------------------

And now the following excerpt from the CVF file:

MultiStateDisplay (
Type ( CPH_DISPLAY MULTI_STATE_DISPLAY )
Position ( 330 388 13 6 )
Graphic ( throttledyn.ace )
States ( 18 3 6
State (
Style ( 0 )
SwitchVal ( 0 )
)
State (
Style ( 0 )
SwitchVal ( 0.0625 )
)
State (
Style ( 0 )
SwitchVal ( 0.125 )
)
State (
Style ( 0 )
SwitchVal ( 0.1875 )
)
State (
Style ( 0 )
SwitchVal ( 0.25 )
)
State (
Style ( 0 )
SwitchVal ( 0.3125 )
)
State (
Style ( 0 )
SwitchVal ( 0.375 )
)
State (
Style ( 0 )
SwitchVal ( 0.4375 )
)
State (
Style ( 0 )
SwitchVal ( 0.5 )
)
State (
Style ( 0 )
SwitchVal ( 0.55555 )
)
State (
Style ( 0 )
SwitchVal ( 0.6111 )
)
State (
Style ( 0 )
SwitchVal ( 0.66665 )
)
State (
Style ( 0 )
SwitchVal ( 0.7222 )
)
State (
Style ( 0 )
SwitchVal ( 0.77775 )
)
State (
Style ( 0 )
SwitchVal ( 0.8333 )
)
State (
Style ( 0 )
SwitchVal ( 0.88885 )
)
State (
Style ( 0 )
SwitchVal ( 0.9444 )
)
State (
Style ( 0 )
SwitchVal ( 0.99995 )
)
)
)

-------------------------------------

With this setup, progressing the throttle from Idle to 100% one notch at a time, the display progresses as follows:
IDLE, N1, N1, N2, N3, N4, N6, N7, N8. Note the repetition of N1, and the absence of N5.

I have attempted changing the "SwitchVal" variables in the CVF to align exactly with the proportions of each notch, but surprisingly it appears that ORTS ignores those values entirely. Any changes we made to any of the SwitchVal variables after 0.55555 (which is the "Idle" position) had no effect as far as we could tell.

Could someone please provide direction on what specifically we need to change in any of the above so that the CPH_DISPLAY MULTI_STATE_DISPLAY will show the correct notches with the non-proportional throttle we have set up? If I change the EngineController section to have straight proportional throttle notch values (0, 0.125, 0.25, 0.375, 0.5, 0.625, 0.75, 0.875, 1.0), then the CPH_DISPLAY does show all of the correct notches, but we are trying to figure out how to make it show the correct notches for a non-proportional throttle.

If someone has an example of a locomotive with a non-proportional notched throttle and a throttle position indicator that works correctly for all 8 throttle positions, please let us know.

[pschlik]

The way cab views function comes across as a very complicated web of loads of different systems talking to each other, and then on top off all that combined controls have totally different behavior than split controls. In short, while it appears a dedicated throttle display is set up to account for nonlinear settings, a combined control display assumes all the states are equally spaced (didn't see any indication that the SwitchVals actually matter). Things could probably be modified to add that behavior to combined throttles too, but that would be an undertaking to discipher (and it would be months before a new stable release would happen anyway, and I don't know if you guys want to force customers into the testing version).

The one thing I know would work, because it's what I've done, is change the physics setup to use a linear throttle, but have custom tractive effort curves for each throttle setting to recreate the intended horsepower response. Changing a whole physics set to use that approach feels like a lot of work to get around something that could probably be fixed in code, but it would work in the current stable release.

[Weter]

Hello.
Sorry for offtop, but still:

Quote

Notch( 0.9 0 TrainBrakesControllerContinuousServiceStart )

Is this notch really appropriate? Especially being set as a notch, not a range, and between suppression and emergency?

[PerryPlatypus]

pschlik, on 14 July 2023 - 08:11 AM, said:

The way cab views function comes across as a very complicated web of loads of different systems talking to each other, and then on top off all that combined controls have totally different behavior than split controls. In short, while it appears a dedicated throttle display is set up to account for nonlinear settings, a combined control display assumes all the states are equally spaced (didn't see any indication that the SwitchVals actually matter). Things could probably be modified to add that behavior to combined throttles too, but that would be an undertaking to discipher (and it would be months before a new stable release would happen anyway, and I don't know if you guys want to force customers into the testing version).

The one thing I know would work, because it's what I've done, is change the physics setup to use a linear throttle, but have custom tractive effort curves for each throttle setting to recreate the intended horsepower response. Changing a whole physics set to use that approach feels like a lot of work to get around something that could probably be fixed in code, but it would work in the current stable release.

Thank you for confirming that the OR code currently doesn't have a provision for this, that at least reassured me that it wasn't an issue of file setup on our end. I think we had a reason for not setting up the throttle the way you're describing with separate Tractive Effort curves for each notch (it might have been related to the way we have our ENG sound files configured), but either way I definitely want to avoid having to completely re-structure our physics this late in the game, especially since our file structure depends on a lot of include files shared between multiple locomotives.

However, I did find a post in another thread - one that you had taken part in actually - that helped us tremendously. We opted to split the displays into separate ones for Dynamic brake and Throttle with some strategically created alpha channels. We were fighting proper display of the SETUP notch, but the post linked to below was able to get us exactly the behavior I was looking for.
http://www.elvastowe...post__p__277938

[Weter]

Hello again.
But there is a tab inside ORTS diesel ENGINE () block, setting correspondence between throttle lever's positions and engine's rpm and maybe power, it produces on each notch.
Otherwise, it would be great to have either power percent for each control notch () string, in addition to currently available "dummy" only, or links between each CP Handke's position to concrete throttle's and DB's notches, while CP's own positions will be placed proportional.

OTOH, combining two, or more display's graphics, using whole alpha-ed out frames for hiding-out unwanted one, when needed is long-time working method already, not demanding to modify anything in program code.

One electric engine had throttle tap, moving in two ways, and authors have managed to show that, using said method.

[pschlik]

PerryPlatypus, on 15 July 2023 - 10:08 PM, said:

However, I did find a post in another thread - one that you had taken part in actually - that helped us tremendously. We opted to split the displays into separate ones for Dynamic brake and Throttle with some strategically created alpha channels. We were fighting proper display of the SETUP notch, but the post linked to below was able to get us exactly the behavior I was looking for.
http://www.elvastowe...post__p__277938

I didn't know that trick worked with locomotives that have combined controls, I always just assumed you had to have a combined display when a combined throttle was used. Good to know that's not the case.