[Traindude]

One thing I like about ORTS is that unlike MSTS, you can hear external sounds (to some degree) in interior views (cab or passenger). Although this can be set in the "Audio" tab in the options menu under "% external sound heard internally", it applies that value to all rolling stock equally.

In the real world, some rolling stock, particularly passenger equipment, often have soundproofing insulation material applied to their walls to attenuate external sounds to a certain degree, which varies depending on the vehicle (more windows means less soundproofing). Some modern locomotive cabs (such as EMD's SD75I and other locomotives that use EMD's "whisper cab" design) also have sound-insulated walls. Additionally, some rolling stock or locomotives have dampening devices in their suspension and/or bogie/truck systems to attenuate wheel and track noise.

So having a way to set the internal sound (and track sound) attenuation levels to different values for each vehicle would be nice. Who else agrees?

[Weter]

You are right.
OTOH, we have open carriages for excursion rides, for instance, where 100% of external sound is expected to be audible in passenger view.

[Laci1959]

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So having a way to set the internal sound (and track sound) attenuation levels to different values for each vehicle would be nice. Who else agrees?

Hello.

After all, that's what the different sms files are for. A locomotive has two sounds, one is the external sound and the other is the internal sound. The following names usually occur:
vehicle name_Eng.sms >> internal sound, equivalent to vehicle name_cab.sms
vehicle name_Wag.sms >> external sound,
vehicle name_In.sms >> cabin sound,
The part after the _ character indicates which section of the eng file it belongs to.
The situation is different with cars. There, the default sound is the external sound, i.e. vehicle name_wag.sms. But in the Inside ( ) block you can place the passenger voice, i.e. the vehicle name_In.sms file. The appropriate sounds can be placed in each SMS file and the volume can also be adjusted. Even sound by sound.
This worked great back in the MSTS days.

	Inside (
		PassengerCabinFile ( "flirtbelter.s" )
		PassengerCabinHeadPos ( -1.102m 2.6m 6.622m )
		RotationLimit ( 100 100 0 )
		StartDirection ( 0 180 0 )
		Sound ( 5341_In.sms )
	)
	Sound ( 5341_Wag.sms )

The code snippet above shows the solution for using external and internal sound.

Sincerely, Laci 1959

[Weter]

Quote

Even sound by sound.

Is that about "flat" volume curves for each of streams?

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The part after the _ character indicates which section of the eng file it belongs to.

So, tnstead of usual *_cab.sms/*_eng.sms, You offer to indicate, the section of *eng-file, where given *sms should be mentioned (as *.eng-file has only wagon() and engine section, plus (optionally) inside() block, but not cabin() or so section?

Wagon (
***
	Inside (
		PassengerCabinFile ( "flirtbelter.s" )
		PassengerCabinHeadPos ( -1.102m 2.6m 6.622m )
		RotationLimit ( 100 100 0 )
		StartDirection ( 0 180 0 )
		Sound ( 5341_In.sms )
	)
	Sound ( 5341_Wag.sms ) Comment (external sounds)
)
***
Engine (
***
	Sound ( 5341_Eng.sms ) Comment (cabine sounds)
***
)
**

That is progressive and controllable way to define different sound sets, BUT
IT DOES DEMAND a great amount of work for making additional *.sms-files, where there were only one/two.
The approach, offered by Sanjay (am I right with name?) is an attempt for automatized adaptation of existing file sets for ORTS extended capabilities, giving instant and quite satisfactory result to users, until modelers would rework sound sets(what may take years to do).

Also, changing the meaning of _eng suffix would surely mess-up many of us.

[Laci1959]

Weter, on 21 April 2023 - 10:29 PM, said:

Sound by sound....
Is that about "flat" volume curves for each of streams?

Hi Weter.

Not explicitly, but it is. The sounds of a passenger car are either tied to movement, i.e. speed, or static, i.e. they can sound at any time.
The driving sounds are tied to the speed curve you mentioned. But I was thinking of the Volume ( ) value set in the Stream thread. As the following code snippet shows. Although the setting applies to all sounds in the Stream thread, I think this much compromise is acceptable.
Static sounds can be the sound of doors opening, passenger information. Much quieter is the sound of the air flowing into the working cylinders in a separate thread.

Stream (
	Priority ( 6 )
	Volume( 0.25 )
	Triggers ( 2
		Variable_Trigger ( Speed_inc_past 1.0 Startlooprelease ( 1 File ( "../../Kozos_Hangok/b_teloc.wav" -1 ) SelectionMethod ( SequentialSelection ) ) )
		Variable_Trigger ( Speed_dec_past 1.0 ReleaseLoopRelease () )
	)
)

Although the setting applies to all sounds in the Stream thread, I think this much compromise is acceptable.
Static sounds can be the sound of doors opening, passenger information. Much quieter is the sound of the air flowing into the working cylinders in a separate thread.

Of course, there is another solution. At the beginning of the SMS file, it is possible to set in which views the given sound can be heard. According to the code below, external sounds can also be heard in the cars within the distance specified in the Distance ( ) section. If I got into the car and pressed the spacebar, I could hear the locomotive's horn. At least in the MSTS days. Then the OR came and this thing didn't quite work like before. I quickly changed it back and haven't tried it since.

Skip ( ** V43 eng ** )
	ScalabiltyGroup ( 5
		Activation	( ExternalCam ()	PassengerCam ()CabCam ()	Distance ( 250 ) )
		Deactivation	( CabCam ()	Distance ( 250 ) )
		...
	)
	

[Traindude]

Laci1959, on 21 April 2023 - 10:02 PM, said:

Hello.

After all, that's what the different sms files are for. A locomotive has two sounds, one is the external sound and the other is the internal sound. The following names usually occur:
vehicle name_Eng.sms >> internal sound, equivalent to vehicle name_cab.sms
vehicle name_Wag.sms >> external sound,
vehicle name_In.sms >> cabin sound,
The part after the _ character indicates which section of the eng file it belongs to.
The situation is different with cars. There, the default sound is the external sound, i.e. vehicle name_wag.sms. But in the Inside ( ) block you can place the passenger voice, i.e. the vehicle name_In.sms file. The appropriate sounds can be placed in each SMS file and the volume can also be adjusted. Even sound by sound.
This worked great back in the MSTS days.

	Inside (
		PassengerCabinFile ( "flirtbelter.s" )
		PassengerCabinHeadPos ( -1.102m 2.6m 6.622m )
		RotationLimit ( 100 100 0 )
		StartDirection ( 0 180 0 )
		Sound ( 5341_In.sms )
	)
	Sound ( 5341_Wag.sms )

The code snippet above shows the solution for using external and internal sound.

Sincerely, Laci 1959

However doesn't let you, for example, reduce the volume of the track noise (example: mp_rail_low1.wav and usatrack1.sms) heard in a particular vehicle (when in motion) that (in the real world) has dampening devices to reduce the track noise. Currently, the track sound volume plays at the same level for all internal views (cab and passenger) for all rolling stock, whether you want them to or not. If a piece of rolling stock has dampening devices, then we should be able to specify the volume level (example 50%) of the track sounds heard in that vehicle only, while leaving the others unaffected (or with different values).

I'm also talking about how you can hear the sounds of the locomotive or a grade-crossing bell from inside a passenger coach, for example. Next time you play the game, go to passenger view with the train stopped and try to blow the locomotive horn, and you'll see what I'm talking about. How can we reduce the volume of the external sounds (locomotive, scenery, etc) that are heard in internal views (example: passenger view) on a vehicle-by-vehicle basis? For example, one passenger coach couuld have 50% volume of external-view game sounds heard in its passenger view, and another could have only 10% volume of external sounds.

[Weter]

Hello, Laci.
If Volume() parameter is applicable to individual streams too (not only to entire Scalability Group), than its definitely better.

Quote

speed curve you mentioned

I did speak about a volume curve, not speed curve.

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                Activation      ( ExternalCam ()        PassengerCam ()CabCam ()        Distance ( 250 ) )
                Deactivation    ( CabCam ()     Distance ( 250 ) )

I've tried this with my testing diesel locomotive and got nasty sound interference, after some changing views: I guess, the cause is not matching amount of activation/deactivation conditions at the beginning of file's text.

Hello, Traindude.

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reduce the volume of the track noise (example: mp_rail_low1.wav and usatrack1.sms) in a particular vehicle (when in motion)

These are so-called "global" sounds, aren't they?
I know a solution (You'll probably need to use online translator to read that).

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How can we reduce the volume of the external sounds ... in internal views on a vehicle-by-vehicle basis

I'm thinking about introduction of a new modifying (volume proportional factor) parameter for *.eng/*.wag files.

[Traindude]

Here's one solution I propose: Two new passenger view parameters: ORTSPercentTrackSoundVolume and ORTSPercentExternalSoundVolume:

	Inside (
		PassengerCabinFile ( "flirtbelter.s" )
		PassengerCabinHeadPos ( -1.102m 2.6m 6.622m )
		RotationLimit ( 100 100 0 )
		StartDirection ( 0 180 0 )
		Sound ( "5341_In.sms" 
                    ORTSPercentTrackSoundVolume ( 50 )
                    ORTSPercentExternalSoundVolume ( 50 )
                )
	)
	Sound ( 5341_Wag.sms )

ORTSPercentTrackSoundVolume takes the volume of the Global Track SMS files and reduce their overall volume by the amount specified for that passenger view only. Likewise the ORTSPercentExternalSoundVolume parameter takes all the external sounds and reduces their overall volume level by the amount specified in that passenger view only. If on the other hand, the "% external sound heard internally" setting in the Audio options tab is set to any value, that value is overriden by the value specified in the *.wag file's ORTSPercentExternalSoundVolume parameter (again for that vehicle only).

These parameters work the same way when specifying "Cab" SMS files as well.

[Weter]

Nice solution, IMO.
Have added link to post above.

[Laci1959]

As I mentioned, I tried this 14 years ago. It worked in MSTS then. Then the OR came and I reset everything. I haven't dealt with it since then, it just occurred to me as a possibility.
I don't really use track sounds. Since each vehicle has its own beautiful sound, I muted the track sounds. I use the OR Automatic switch and curve squeal track sound. Also, on side lines where the track is not welded, there is a characteristic track sound, but only there.
This is always a topic of discussion in various Facebook groups. Some people insist on the clicking sound because it is so beautiful. Then when I explain that on a track with a speed of 120 km/h, 120-meter-long rails are welded together, and the welding is carefully ground flat, there is great surprise.
If I understand correctly, the Activation ( ), Deactivation ( ), Volume ( ) section does not work for track sounds? Or is it also a matter of setting?

[Weter]

I think, these are managed by route's track-specific (sound regions) settings and it's related ttype.dat file (am I right?)
And if no dedicated sounds in route\sound directory - then Global sounds will be called.

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I muted the track sounds. I use the OR Automatic switch and curve squeal track sound

Good, but how about concrete/wooden ties-supported tracks, beton slabs, bridges, made of different materials, crossing covers and tunnels -passing sounds then?..

[Laci1959]

Quote

I've tried this with my testing diesel locomotive and got nasty sound interference, after some changing views: I guess, the cause is not matching amount of activation/deactivation conditions at the beginning of file's text.

Weter, I'm sorry.
I forgot that the sounds coming in from outside must be extracted from the cab.sms file. In practice, only the clicking sound of the various switches, the ticking of the speedometer (if it has a sound), and the hissing sound of brake controllers should remain. Keep your sound of alertness, the characteristic sound of the acknowledgment pedal, and the characteristic hissing sound of an air wiper.
Since both the wag.sms and cab.sms files contained the diesel engine sound, this caused the chaos.

[Weter]

Quote

Since both the wag.sms and cab.sms files contained the diesel engine sound, this caused the chaos.

Touched with Your "I'm sorry" Thanks.
I've thought the same, and now totally agree with Your statement, but...
I hope, Ypu'll agree with me, that diesel's sound is often sounds very different in cab and outside.
So, it might be not good idea - to rely on external sounds only, totally removing internal sounds.
Even window glasses, supported by rubber, even poorly fixed parts will vibrate with diesel and upon joints - causing specific cab sound.
In M62 with advanced exhaust suppressor, diesel is almost muted in cab, only traction gear is heared.
My problem was making a copy of cab.sms for working in passenger view also.

Strict mutual-exclusive sets of conditions should be defined for not to mix streams, belonging to different *.sms-files.

[Laci1959]

Weter, on 22 April 2023 - 12:19 AM, said:

I think, these are managed by route's track-specific (sound regions) settings and it's related ttype.dat file (am I right?)
And if no dedicated sounds in route\sound directory - then Global sounds will be called.

Good, but how about concrete/wooden ties-supported tracks, beton slabs, bridges, made of different materials, crossing covers and tunnels -passing sounds then?..

I modified the TType.dat file according to the manual. The modified signal files, turntables, the alternative carspawn.dat, and the new TType.dat file are in the Openrails folder. This complements the original TType.dat file.
These settings should be used wisely. There are always exceptions where there are characteristic sounds. We have many bridges where bedding (ballast) is also carried over. And it has a serious sound dampening effect, even on a metal bridge. In the case of rails attached to the bridge timber, there is of course a characteristic sound. The bridge timber is bolted directly to the iron bridge and the rail is bolted to it. The so-called Strail elements, which are made of rubber, are also used in many places at road crossings. The part of it that fits the railway track is very soft. That's why there is no sound change. I asked train drivers in Facebook groups. They replied that there is no sound change at all in the Strail paved crossings. Of course, the situation is different in passages made from old Bodan covering elements. But there is less and less of that. Ah, yes. Due to the insulated rail circuits, a thick plastic insulator is placed under the washer plate. Concrete base (or wooden base), insulation board, washer board, the order is similar. In case of spring fastening, a plastic insulator is also placed between the shoulder of the concrete bottom and the clamping spring.

[Weter]

I mean, sound suddenly changes, when train passes different types of track work - so removing track sounds and using switch and curve ORTS automatic sounds playing is far not enough for now.