[Genma Saotome]

One thing you can do w/ orchards is to make several shapes of single rows, each of different lengths (maybe one or two larger square or rectangular shapes too for the bulk of the orchard). OR's object instancing will process them almost as efficiently as-if it were a forest region... and being 3d they'll probably look a bit better too. The only limitation is they need to go on relatively flat ground (or be built to a specific grade).

The Object Rotator spreadsheet has a tab specifically for calculating the Position() values with a user specified offset so spacing the rows evenly is do-able. There may be other utilities that do the same.

[scottb613]

Goku, on 06 May 2018 - 08:56 AM, said:

For me the polygon forests are easy thing to do, but there must be someone who will want to do it in OR too.

Hi Goku,

One thing along similar lines that wouldn't affect the world tile - would you be able to do similar in TRRE5 with a texture ? Specify the borders of a polygon and flood fill the selected texture - with a feathered edge - into the area defined by the polygon... I realize we have brushes - but - this would be specifically for painting crop fields on farms with a better degree of accuracy ?

Thanks...

Regards,
Scott

[eric from trainsim]

Another a "how hard would it be" question....

The MSTS definition for a forest object only uses a single texture file, and then randomizes the size & placement of the cruciforms that get rendered.

How hard would it be to replace the value within the texture field to refer to a list or array containing multiple textures, each with a min/max size for each texture, and randomly add these into a single forest object?

There's already a structure for the forests.dat file that's recognized (not sure if ORTS uses it), which could easily be extended into a multi-select list:

Forest ( "SilverMapleM" "SilverMaple.ace" 25f 15f 0.5f 1.2f)
Forest ( "SilverMapleL" "SilverMaple.ace" 30f 19f 0.5f 1.2f)
Forest ( "weeds5" "weeds5.ace" 4.5f 4.5f 0.5f 1.3f )
Forest ( "weeds7" "weeds7.ace" 4.5f 4.5f 0.5f 1.3f )
Forest ( "weeds9" "weeds9.ace" 8.5f 8.5f 0.5f 1.3f )
Forest ( "Trackline-46" "MSTracklineVeg46-DG.ace" 2.50f 3.5f 0.9f 1.1f )
Forest ( "Trackline-48" "MSTracklineVeg48-LG.ace" 2.50f 3.5f 0.9f 1.1f )

My thought would be to re-use that structure as a separately named .DAT or JSON file which could be referred to in the .W object declaration for a forest:

	Forest (
		UiD ( 1 )
                TreeList ( MixedTrees.dat )
		TreeTexture ( silvermaple.ace )
		ScaleRange ( 0.5 1.2 )
		Area ( 200 450 )
		Population ( 360 )
		TreeSize ( 25 15 )
		StaticFlags ( 00000000 )
		Position ( -969.622 188.433 -443.505 )
		QDirection ( 0 -0.702966 0 0.711187 )
		VDbId ( 4294967295 )
	)

For backward compatibility... leave all the attributes in place for the current logic so that there's a default to render...

however...

If TreeList() is present with valid properties and can be read, randomly use the values from the DAT or JSON to seed what's being rendered.

Yes, I know TSRE doesn't support this. Those of us who create routes would need to manually hack their W files for this to be useful, but I think it's worth a little bit of extra hacking to avoid needing to overlay duplicate forest objects that often wind up planting multiple cruciforms in a similar seeding pattern that start to overlap each other.

Hope the idea is somewhat clear... happy to hear other options for creating dense, diverse forests.

[scottb613]

eolesen, on 07 November 2022 - 01:32 PM, said:

Another a "how hard would it be" question....

Hi Eric,

WHOLEHEARTEDLY CONCUR - I've had similar thoughts and I thought I opened a Trello card on it but I can't seem to find the ones I opened anymore.

My thought was to have a number of predefined forest regions - with the proper texture mix, density, and size of included vegetation. Then call whichever type is desired for a given region on your route.

This would also help with the Z-Fighting issue - as a single placement forest region seems to avoid most of the dreaded flashing. The problem gets bad when you "stack" forest regions when attempting to create a "realistic" mix.

I'm sure we can come up with something to utilize this feature without needing TSRE.

:I-Agree:

Regards,
Scott

[scottb613]

Hi Folks,

No interest by anyone else?

From my perspective - this would be an absolute game changer for Route Builders and it doesn't seem like it would be a massive programming challenge for the ORTS developers.

Mixed - realistic forests - without the need to juggle and repetitively stack forest regions to get the desired effect - while also greatly reducing Z-Fighting - win - win.



Regards,
Scott

[Eldorado.Railroad]

scottb613, on 18 November 2022 - 04:13 AM, said:

No interest by anyone else?

Yes...of course there is.

BUT.......

I requested a proposal..for more randomness in placement such that...two FOREST regions at exactly the same coordinates would NOT overlap. The "blowback" from one "old timer", not to mention outright, barely veiled ridicule destroyed any movement on the subject. I found another way, that I kept to myself and moved on.

You have to accept the fact that route builders are NOT software developers, and certainly NOT often capable of thinking "outside the box" yet alone understanding what you are proposing in "code speak". For many, learning new things is an act of excruciating pain. We all fall into this as we get older. I have my issues with the newer releases of Blender, and I know that thus far you have resisted using Blender at all for your wonderful steam engines. It is not because you don't want to, it is because it is so very different from 3D Canvas/Crafter.

I have looked at C#, numerous times and EACH time what stops me from installing the compiler is the "Microsoft way" of doing things. In decades past, compilers and their IDEs were installed in a single directory and could be transported to another machine intact by copying that directory. That is no longer the case with the tentacles of using the "windows registry" and not a simple text, config file in the directory that that the compiler is installed in. When Windows 7 is dumped from Open Rails I might consider installing an older version of C# on one of my machines, but not until perdition freezes over. So really what you are left with is either to goad Carlo into looking at this proposition or install C# and do the coding yourself and hope that the overlords accept the change for Forest regions.

It has not gone unnoticed that on other forums some individuals jump all over other individuals who dare to think "outside the box", by for example trying to be economical with hardware (Nvidia's 4090 $ $ $ $ !!! comes to mind) only to have the idea "poopooed" as living in the past. Do not interpret lack of enthusiasm as disinterest. I think there are a lot of very smart lurkers who do not "take the bait".

Steve

[eric from trainsim]

Huh. I'm a route builder and a developer, and I've built my own tools in C# simply to automate a good part of my route building process just because I felt like it....

Pretty certain Vince Cockram is a retired developer, too.

I won't dive into ORTS code because it's way outside my expertise and comfort level. I'll be glad to help generate the ideas and user stories, but need someone with more knowledge of the inner workings to poke holes in the idea and find the best way to implement...

[ebnertra000]

I also think forests with miltiple tree types would vastly simplify route-building

[darwins]

Strangely I thought this suggestion had been made long ago:

http://www.elvastowe...post__p__135561
http://www.elvastowe...post__p__193243
http://www.elvastowe...post__p__236477

Yet I can find no mention of it on the Trello road map.

Both having mixed forests, with different densities of different species, and having irregular polygon boundaries rather than rectangles would be a fantastic help in route building.

Hopefully we will get there one day.

[Weter]

For getting it, we must do something for that, what's more, than just a hope...
Sorry.

<Admin Comment:
Two of three threads, mentioned above by Darwin, and being abandoned in 2015 and 2018 were merged into one, with this thread now -
For the sake of convience>