[Gwyd]

Hi, sorry if this is the wrong forum to post in. I'm working on a timetable mode activity (timetable mode timetable?) for the London & South East route. One of the features of this route is that a lot of services will begin or end of the route itself. For this reason I was wondering if it was possible to a) begin timetable services on the move and b ) end the timetable "activity" on a location trigger?

Also, I'm struggling somewhat with the reversing of units at termini. I can get the units to swap onto the next service, but I then have the issue of not having a cab face the right way. If I put a reverse cab on the back of the unit, I then end up not having tail lights. Any thought on this would be welcome :)

Weter, on 27 February 2022 - 02:37 PM, said:

Hello.
And Welcome aboard.
About the second-that's known bug.
About first, please specify a little.
Did You learn pool functions already?

It's not so much about the trains spawning in on the route edge, that's fine. I would just rather not start from a dead stop, and be able to start on the move (say 20 mph or so). It would also help out the timetabling, if the trains didn't need to accelarate from a standing start.

[Weter]

As far as I know, timetable concept reproduces the whole 24-hour day of given ROUTE's "life", but not a part of given service's ride, as we habit to see in activity mode.
And that means, every single train (player just chooses one, he would control) should start somewhere, complete its work order, then stop. After what it might either:
- Disappear
- Form/trigger some other train
- Go to pool and be ready to get some new work order.
Let's wait, what Robert would tell us.

Also, You can create a small shunter at some spur, with neither actual work order nor long path: just specify desired time of spawning for it, then choose it for play, and see the other trains work, or even assign tracking cameras to them for follow.

That's very exciting too, else it helps to tune Your timetable up and/or debug it.

[Aldarion]

there are some known issues about trainsets and reversing.
We have to learn to live with them for the time beeing.
If you need to make a reverse, it's best to 'split' your train timetable in two diferent trains.

[Gwyd]

Been making some good progress on this timetable mode, although transcribing 122 pages of timetable data into OR isn't the most thrilling thing.
I've timetabled about 5 out of almost 500 trains on this schedule so far (although at no point are anywhere near all 471 on the route at once), accounting for about 20 services. Main snag I'm hitting is that only route start and end times are provided in my timetable, so working out what train should be exactly where and when is tricky.

[Weter]

Hello.

Quote

route start and end times are provided in my timetable

Do You mean the source real-life TT, or that version, You are completing?
If first, what the problem to insert proper times for proper stations, BUT...
Same, as if second, You will then HAVE to ride at least one of typical train for checking, if referred timings are really achievable with ORTS.
Performing that test-ride, I usually check every timing, and correct, if needed, then, translate that data to other trains of the same type.
(if they are appeared to go faster, Than its possible)

[Gwyd]

I was talking about the real life timetable, so I have to guess which station stops are made and when (not all trains stop at all stations).
I've made a short(ish) recording showing about an hour and a half in the morning, the traffic is starting to build up a little: https://youtu.be/l9xJazi01bU
It still grinds my gears that I can't do anything about the front/back situation, I've even looked into scripting to see if I could do anything there to add textures for headlights/headcodes.

[roeter]

Gwyd, on 10 March 2022 - 10:43 AM, said:

I was talking about the real life timetable, so I have to guess which station stops are made and when (not all trains stop at all stations).

What is your timetable source?
The WTT shows exactly all stops, as well as passing times for major stations and junctions. And even the public timetables show each stop, so I do not understand what you need to guess here.

Quote

I've made a short(ish) recording showing about an hour and a half in the morning, the traffic is starting to build up a little: https://youtu.be/l9xJazi01bU
It still grinds my gears that I can't do anything about the front/back situation, I've even looked into scripting to see if I could do anything there to add textures for headlights/headcodes.

You can use $trigger (instead of $forms) in the #dispose field to change the consist of the train. This would allow you to 'swap' front and end, but you need to be carefull to match the rest of the consist otherwise it will look distinctly odd.

Regards,
Rob Roeterdink

[Gwyd]

roeter, on 10 March 2022 - 12:21 PM, said:

What is your timetable source?

I'm using a diagram (https://sremg.org.uk/files/SE_MF77.pdf) rather than a public timetable or WTT, and I've struggled to find anything more detailed for this region and era, the advantage of a diagram being that it indicates what train passes onto what service, rather than having to somewhat guess

roeter, on 10 March 2022 - 12:21 PM, said:

You can use $trigger...

Does this still allow the player to seemlessly work between services or would they have to quit and restart to go onto the next service?

I've also run into a new problem, in that despite MT's LSE being "set in the 70s" there are some station layouts from after 1992 meaning certain sidings are missing

[roeter]

$Trigger will indeed allow the player to continue with the train.

You have a PM.

Regards,
Rob Roeterdink

[rickloader]

Hi Gwyd! This seems a worthwhile project. As you are going to spend a lot of time on it, it would be worth spending a little money to get some period documents. These do come up on Ebay in Railwayana/employee timetables.As well as carriage working notices the Southern Region used to produce books showing the working at the London Terminii. The SREMG might be able to scan some foryou.
I`m working on a similar project but set on the South Western in the 50s

Hi Rob, as Gwyd mentioned moving starts to trains in timetables, I`m sure you must have done some work on this? Are there snags?
Also you mentioned passing times at Junctions etc. I think you once said that was already coded but not yet executed
These 2 items would be very useful. Should we have a Trello or a Blueprint?

Thanks, Rick

[Gwyd]

rickloader, on 11 March 2022 - 05:19 AM, said:

Hi Gwyd! This seems a worthwhile project. As you are going to spend a lot of time on it...

Hi Rick, thanks for the suggestion, I might well look for a couple more thorough documents and see what I can find. Currently I'm hitting a couple of other snags, namely with route inaccuracies. The layout at Orpington appears to be from the 1992 upgrade works, as well as some missing points at Cannon Street preventing trains reaching certain platforms from Blackfrairs and Metropolitain Junction.

Current progress:
~13-14/52 2-EPB diagrams complete, including 1 train that runs from Grove Park to Bromley North and back 22 times. Other trains join and divide from these diagrams at various points (only 2-HAPs and 4-EPBs so far, but I think some 4-VEPs get involved too at some point). I'm also trying to work on a script that will automatically generate timings for me based on a few parameters, which should speed up my work flow, which will be needed since I estimate there are ~2500 services to write in.

[Weter]

When You copy particular train's column with timetable editor, You can refer time-shift before pasting it for other train.
This is effective, when those two trains follow exactly the same schedule, but in different time.

Defined time-shift, then will be added to every station's timing, saving You from routine of calculation and manually entering those new timings.

[Gwyd]

I've had a bit of a problem, I think its to do with the dispose commands. I've attached the error message from the log below:

Spoiler

Error: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
   at Orts.Simulation.Timetables.TimetableInfo.DisposeInfo..ctor(DisposeType typeOfDispose, TTTrainCommands trainCommands, FormCommand formType, String trainName) in C:\Jenkins\jobs\Open Rails Stable\workspace\Source\Orts.Simulation\Simulation\Timetables\ProcessTimetable.cs:line 3740
   at Orts.Simulation.Timetables.TimetableInfo.TTTrainInfo.BuildTrain(List`1 fileStrings, rowType[] RowInfo, Int32 pathRow, Int32 consistRow, Int32 startRow, Int32 disposeRow, Int32 briefingRow, String description, Dictionary`2 stationNames, Single actSpeedConv, TimetableInfo ttInfo) in C:\Jenkins\jobs\Open Rails Stable\workspace\Source\Orts.Simulation\Simulation\Timetables\ProcessTimetable.cs:line 1445
   at Orts.Simulation.Timetables.TimetableInfo.ConvertFileContents(TimetableReader fileContents, Signals signalRef, List`1& trainInfoList, Int32 indexcount, String filePath) in C:\Jenkins\jobs\Open Rails Stable\workspace\Source\Orts.Simulation\Simulation\Timetables\ProcessTimetable.cs:line 661
   at Orts.Simulation.Timetables.TimetableInfo.ProcessTimetable(String[] arguments, CancellationToken cancellation) in C:\Jenkins\jobs\Open Rails Stable\workspace\Source\Orts.Simulation\Simulation\Timetables\ProcessTimetable.cs:line 127
   at Orts.Simulation.Simulator.StartTimetable(String[] arguments, CancellationToken cancellation) in C:\Jenkins\jobs\Open Rails Stable\workspace\Source\Orts.Simulation\Simulation\Simulator.cs:line 472
   at Orts.Viewer3D.Processes.GameStateRunActivity.Start(UserSettings settings, String acttype, String[] args) in C:\Jenkins\jobs\Open Rails Stable\workspace\Source\RunActivity\Viewer3D\Processes\GameStateRunActivity.cs:line 289
   at Orts.Viewer3D.Processes.GameStateRunActivity.<>c__DisplayClass35_0.<Load>b__3() in C:\Jenkins\jobs\Open Rails Stable\workspace\Source\RunActivity\Viewer3D\Processes\GameStateRunActivity.cs:line 160
   at Orts.Viewer3D.Processes.GameStateRunActivity.Load() in C:\Jenkins\jobs\Open Rails Stable\workspace\Source\RunActivity\Viewer3D\Processes\GameStateRunActivity.cs:line 201
   at Orts.Viewer3D.Processes.LoaderProcess.Load() in C:\Jenkins\jobs\Open Rails Stable\workspace\Source\RunActivity\Viewer3D\Processes\LoaderProcess.cs:line 160
   at Orts.Viewer3D.Processes.LoaderProcess.DoLoad() in C:\Jenkins\jobs\Open Rails Stable\workspace\Source\RunActivity\Viewer3D\Processes\LoaderProcess.cs:line 140
   at Orts.Viewer3D.Processes.LoaderProcess.LoaderThread() in C:\Jenkins\jobs\Open Rails Stable\workspace\Source\RunActivity\Viewer3D\Processes\LoaderProcess.cs:line 111
   at System.Threading.ThreadHelper.ThreadStart_Context(Object state)
   at System.Threading.ExecutionContext.RunInternal(ExecutionContext executionContext, ContextCallback callback, Object state, Boolean preserveSyncCtx)
   at System.Threading.ExecutionContext.Run(ExecutionContext executionContext, ContextCallback callback, Object state, Boolean preserveSyncCtx)
   at System.Threading.ExecutionContext.Run(ExecutionContext executionContext, ContextCallback callback, Object state)
   at System.Threading.ThreadHelper.ThreadStart()

I believe that this was caused by the timetable editor by default setting the trigger command as $trigger /trigger=<train>, as opposed to $trigger=<train>. I opened the file in a text editor and did a find and replace on all the $trigger /trigger=<train> examples. I'm not sure why it does this, a bug prehaps?

[Aldarion]

Weter, on 12 March 2022 - 03:44 AM, said:

When You copy particular train's column with timetable editor, You can refer time-shift before pasting it for other train.
This is effective, when those two trains follow exactly the same schedule, but in different time.

Defined time-shift, then will be added to every station's timing, saving You from routine of calculation and manually entering those new timings.

I did not know about this feature. It's not on the manual... do you have an example, please?

[Weter]

Hello, Rui.
I have definitely seen it in manual: there was said about services, running every... Say, half an hour (default sift length)
So, there is a second paste button at timetable editor's instrument bar. As You copy desired column and press it (paste shifted, IIRC) - the little dialogbox will appear, offering You to specify the shift time.