[Laci1959]

The first picture shows steam locomotive 424,345 with control car Bat 5900. This compilation did the suburban traffic of the ’60s. The driver in front gave signals to the other driver on the locomotive with a bell. This was called indirect remote control. The driver in front just braked.

[Weter]

Just as in England!
And what is the station on screen?

[steamer_ctn]

 Laci1959, on 10 September 2021 - 11:58 PM, said:

I do not agree with the change marked in the picture. We have a large air tank under the control car. The train has two air pipes along each car. The locomotive compressor fills the main air tank of the control carriage through the yellow air pipe. The red color applies the brakes. I think it's kind of crafted everywhere.
Now the automatic doors of the cars are also operated from the charging line (yellow).

As far as I am aware OR does not have a fully functional pneumatic model. By this I mean that air usage, for example, by closing and opening the doors is not taken into account, and therefore no reduction in air volume and pressure occurs as a result of door operations. My understanding is that the only functions impacting the air reservoir are brakes and some auxiliaries such as the sander.

Thus the application of a extremely large air compressor to the control car becomes more of a "cosmetic" addition then a feature that directly impacts the performance and operation of the train.

So at the moment I am not sure of the value for adding it. As far as I can tell brake operation seems to be working ok on the Control Car.

[Weter]

Quote

OR does not have a fully functional pneumatic model

Indeed, but
If it is at control car, it's sound is expected to be heared in cab (compressor)
And, Main Reservoir (or if you want, feeding magistral/MR_Pipe) Manometer is critical to be at the cab.

[Laci1959]

Hello

The air compressor may be a few meters in the locomotive, but may be 200 meters in the locomotive at the other end of the train. From there it comes forward on the CHARGING PIPE. Avoid structures that require other air. Only the brakes consume air in the BRAKE PIPE.

https://kephost.net/p/2021/36/435_58817d899371.png

	AirBrakesMainMaxAirPressure( 10bar )
	AirBrakesMainResVolume( 1200l )
	AirBrakesCompressorRestartPressure( -8.8bar )
	AirBrakesMainMinResAirPressure ( 7.6bar )
	AirBrakeMaxMainResPipePressure ( 5bar )

These lines of code contain the settings for the main air tank. This type depends on both the capacity and the filling pressure. A negative value for AirBrakesCompressorRestartPressure indicates that the charge air is coming from the locomotive at the rear. Therefore, these lines should be kept.
Of course, I have already deleted the lines for compressor settings. I’ve tried this on a reduced energy control car for a couple of years now. It has been working well ever since.
Please keep these lines very nice.

Sincerely, Laci 1959

[Laci1959]

 Weter, on 12 September 2021 - 04:46 AM, said:

Is last string new?

No!!
Adjusting the pressure in the brake line connecting the cars. You know the red Ackermann gear. To this value, the driver's brake valve (marked with the number 2 in the figure) charges the brake pipe pressure when the brake is released.
That is why these lines should be left.


https://kephost.net/p/2021/36/2421_325a00b0300a.png

[Laci1959]

 Weter, on 12 September 2021 - 08:07 AM, said:

Wow!
Program for automatic file configuration!

Pay attention to the correct parentheses, and use the Tab consistently to create a legible eng, wag hurt. I have been using it for 13 to 14 years. Unfortunately, you only know the original MSTS, the rest have to be entered manually.

[steamer_ctn]

 Laci1959, on 12 September 2021 - 04:36 AM, said:

	AirBrakesMainMaxAirPressure( 10bar )
	AirBrakesMainResVolume( 1200l )
	AirBrakesCompressorRestartPressure( -8.8bar )
	AirBrakesMainMinResAirPressure ( 7.6bar )
	AirBrakeMaxMainResPipePressure ( 5bar )

In a positive pressure system such as the air brakes, a -ve value would indicate a vacuum, which really doesn't make sense. It would supposedly also give a higher input range for the compressor to charge, though pressure shouldn't go below 0 psi. So whilst this may appear to work in the train, the value is an "unrealistic" setting to be applied.

Given the effort that has been put into OR to try and get the physics as accurate as possible, using "unrealistic" parameter values such as this, to get a function to "work" takes us back to MSTS days where content developers used all sorts of values to achieve the end result that they desired. This means that a lot of legacy ENG/WAG files will not work correctly as their physics values are not realistic values with the more sophisticated OR physics.

The other risk that a content developer who uses these types of values is exposed to, is that if the code is changed, then their values may no longer be accepted by OR, or their function may no longer work as it originally did. For example, if a developer adds a code check on this value to ensure that only positive values are entered, then the feature may not work the way that it was expected. So if content developers choose to use "unrealistic" values to "fool" the code, then they need to accept the risk that it may not work at some time in the future.

IMHO I feel that we should strive to only use "realistic" parameter values.

If there is a feature or function that is impacting the primary performance or operation of the train then this should be added as a correctly operating feature rather then a "work around".

[Coolhand101]

I believe I found this workaround( that I know of ) for a Cab/Trailer car that has no compressor. As the Cab/Trailer car had to be an ENG file, a compressor had to be placed to allow charging of the Main Reservoir. The minus value allowed other compressors in the train-set to work and not the compressor in the Cab/Trailer car( Engine ).

Having a proper trailer car in OR will allow the compressor to work on other EMUs/Engines that has a compressor. I agree that workarounds are just that, and once prototypical features are in place, this workaround will not be needed!

On the old UK EMUs REP( Tractor unit ) and the TC units ( Trailer cab cars ), the REP unit had two compressors, however, one of the coaches( I believe the brake coach ) on the TC unit had a compressor. This would of only functioned if another powered EMU or Engine was in the formation to provided the electrical power for that compressor. On that note, can a WAG coach have a compressor ( or that only works if a powered EMU/engine is in the formation )?

Another thing about the compressor is the charging time differed a lot from an empty tank to a closely filled Main Reservoir tank, ie:- On most of the UK old EMUs, it took 20 seconds to charge from 90 to 100 PSI. In OR this can be attained, however, charging from an empty tank in OR would take 200 seconds, where in reality, this would take 6 to 7 minutes. Not sure if this can implemented in the near future!

Thanks

[steamer_ctn]

 Coolhand101, on 12 September 2021 - 04:46 PM, said:

I agree that workarounds are just that, and once prototypical features are in place, this workaround will not be needed!

True, but the risk for content developers that distribute content is that all their models may need to be updated and redistributed after a code change has been implemented that impacts the work around.

If the content developer is prepared to accept this risk, then fair enough.

 Coolhand101, on 12 September 2021 - 04:46 PM, said:

On the old UK EMUs REP( Tractor unit ) and the TC units ( Trailer cab cars ), the REP unit had two compressors, however, one of the coaches( I believe the brake coach ) on the TC unit had a compressor. This would of only functioned if another powered EMU or Engine was in the formation to provided the electrical power for that compressor. On that note, can a WAG coach have a compressor ( or that only works if a powered EMU/engine is in the formation )?

Ok it sounds like a case is being built for the situation where an unpowered car may have a main reservoir and a compressor, or some variation of this. As you suggest it would rely on the powered car for the power to drive the compressor (if fitted).

I will look into it.

 Coolhand101, on 12 September 2021 - 04:46 PM, said:

Another thing about the compressor is the charging time differed a lot from an empty tank to a closely filled Main Reservoir tank, ie:- On most of the UK old EMUs, it took 20 seconds to charge from 90 to 100 PSI. In OR this can be attained, however, charging from an empty tank in OR would take 200 seconds, where in reality, this would take 6 to 7 minutes. Not sure if this can implemented in the near future!

The main function of the current pneumatic model in OR is to ensure that air is available for braking purposes.

To be more accurate, the model would need to have all the appropriate air volumes (brake cylinder, reservoirs, air pipes, etc) involved in the braking system so that air flows could be accurately modeled. I suspect that this will be some time in the coming.