[Elmo313]

Is there a reason why ORTS include files work with some engine and wagon files, but not with others? Does the age of the model matter? An example: I have no problems getting include files to work with Tyler Bundy's GP10's, but can't get them to load for Jan Henning Gettkant's Alco models.

I downloaded NAVS Soo Line GP9 kit, and had a long close look at what they did with include files. I made include files for lighting for some of my locos. They lighting include files load with Dick Cowen's GE 44 ton, but won't load with the Alco models.

I'm using a template for my include files, based off the NAVS GP9 kit, so all my files include the same structure, which should eliminate any syntax errors.

Thanks to all who can help.

[R H Steele]

If you're using the Navs kit as a template maybe Erick will see this thread...it's a good template. Also in OR the order of include files, or ORTS parameters that are loaded appears to be important. Maybe in the older locomotives, the order is incorrect, or there are missing or incorrect parameters.
It's hard to diagnose your problem without seeing a complete example of the files you are using.

[Elmo313]

R H Steele, on 07 July 2021 - 01:37 PM, said:

If you're using the Navs kit as a template maybe Erick will see this thread...it's a good template. Also in OR the order of include files, or ORTS parameters that are loaded appears to be important. Maybe in the older locomotives, the order is incorrect, or there are missing or incorrect parameters.
It's hard to diagnose your problem without seeing a complete example of the files you are using.

Gerry:

I tried to upload the include files I'm using but the system said I can't upload those types of files. Kinda hard to get answers without them, but...

Are you the author of the "Common.inc" files? I'm using those on the RS-18's too with no problems.

[Weter]

Hello.
Try to zip your files-*.zip-files upload is allowed.
Include technology replaces entrie section of the original file, so if latter wrote in specific manner, the similar scheme of include-file is needed, i think.
If that would be right, then there are no common architecture of include-file to work universally with all content. As Gerry mentioned, the order of parameters should be similar in include and original file.

[R H Steele]

Elmo313, on 07 July 2021 - 01:58 PM, said:

Gerry:

I tried to upload the include files I'm using but the system said I can't upload those types of files. Kinda hard to get answers without them, but...

Are you the author of the "Common.inc" files? I'm using those on the RS-18's too with no problems.

Yes, I'm the author of those files, are you using Version 1 or Version 2? To upload your files, follow Weter's post...zip files are allowed. There's quite a few members here that are very familiar with include files in their various configurations...so I'm sure you'll eventually get some help.

[Elmo313]

R H Steele, on 07 July 2021 - 04:32 PM, said:

Yes, I'm the author of those files, are you using Version 1 or Version 2? To upload your files, follow Weter's post...zip files are allowed. There's quite a few members here that are very familiar with include files in their various configurations...so I'm sure you'll eventually get some help.

A big thank-you from me for doing those. I'm using Version 2 of the include files. Nothing goes in to ORTS until it's set up with them. The RS-18 I'm working with is one that I've painted in the CN Tempo scheme (is that something the members here might like me to upload, even though the model is old?). I'm tinkering with the Std_Loco_RS11.inc because CN re-geared these to run at 148kmh instead of 104kmh (92mph and 65mph respectively if one is not metric).

I'm curious if the ORTS release may be a factor. I'm using version 1.3.1.4328. Would it help to use one of the newer test versions?

The files I'm using (they're WIP right now) are attached.

Attached File(s)

•  Lights.zip (1.72K)
  Number of downloads: 253

[R H Steele]

I looked over the files, no missing brackets. I was concerned about the use of "kmh" ( MSTS misspelling ) but OR does accept that UoM..so no problem there. I'd like to see what the OR log has in it when you try to run your configuration, can you post that?

Also the file "JDF_Mod_Eng_RS11" -- could be something in there that is causing the problem. You've probably already done this, but recheck all your path statements for errors, make sure everything is pointing to the correct location...I've missed the smallest errors in typing & spacing that caused me problems.

Steve has a good point...make sure everything is aligned with the path strings.

Elmo313, on 08 July 2021 - 04:11 PM, said:

A big thank-you from me for doing those. I'm using Version 2 of the include files.

http://www.elvastower.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/sign_welcome.gif http://www.elvastower.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/sign_rockon.gif It is gratifying, you are doing just what I hoped people would do...using and reworking the files to their specifications...getting interested in OR.

[Genma Saotome]

I recommend you think about about adding a few more levels to your \common.inc tree.

Compare yours and mine
Common.inc/Locomotives/JDF_Mod_Eng_RS11
Common.inc/models/Locomotives/modeler id/JDF_Mod/RS11

First change -- inserting /models. This level has only one other directory: /fleet. The difference is you can put something into /fleet that is used by all sorts of .eng or .wag files. I put standard brake files under the \fleet branch, for locomotives I'll put brakestands and monitors.

Second change -- inserting some sort of string to identify who made the model (e.g., 3dtrains. Tigertrains, etc). I do this to ensure I keep things apart when I have models of the same locomotive from two different sources.

Third change -- inserting /JDF_Mod. The idea here is to isolate the things you create from .inc files you got from someone else. It's also a great way for you to separate the .inc files you downloaded from copies you made and edited at a later date. This will be useful when the original files are updated -- drop them in under the original id and check out the differences. Update you copies as needed. It's no big deal to omit this now as there are few people passing .inc files around. You already understand this bu using almost the same thing already, so read on.

Fourth change -- inserting /RS11. You may do .inc files for many different locomotives and again I see you've thought about that so the issue comes down to combining your name plus the locomotive type as a directory name vs. your name for one directory and the locomotive type as a child. IMO the later approach will work better in an environment where .inc files have been prepared and distributed by numerous people.

Last comment: Go back and look at changes two and three and give some thought to what you will need to do when you have the same locomotive from two different authors.

Here's what I have in place right now:






Do note what is and isn't in the last image: There's nothing about brakes or couplers. That stuff is in the \fleet directory tree. Every freight car gets an ...empty_car.inc file that caries all the data that is correct for an empty car of that design. Then there are n number of loading .inc files. These carry only those data that have changed because the car is now heavier. The reason this works is when OR finds duplicate parameters it keeps the values of the last one. Within the .wag file the empty_car.inc link occurs first and as wanted the lading .inc file comes after that. You could do the same sort of thing with locomotives if you wanted variation in fuel.

[Elmo313]

I did solve the lights issue. It was a case of position matters. I moved the lights include statement above all the other include statements, and the lights worked. At that point all the sound disappeared. Fixed that by putting the sound statement above the all the include statements,and the sounds came back. Same happened with the Tempo coaches I'm doing. Both issues solved by putting the sound statements at the top of the file, followed by the lights include statement, then all the includes pointing to the Common.inc folder.

Dave, thanks for the suggestions for organizing my Common.inc folder. It's a mess with all the changes I've made for BLW, SLI, 3DTrains, Tiger Trains...the list goes on. I'm always messing up what I'm trying to do. I can see where this structure will really help considering all I'm trying to learn about include files, and the flexibility they give.

I have come up with a new problem that all my tinkering is not able to solve. No matter what MaxVelocity paramater I enter (yes Gerry, kmh was a typo, now fixed to read 148kph) ORTS only gives the locomotive a speed of 104kph (65mph). I'm assuming that ORTS does not read MaxVelocity statements. I know with steam locomotives it does not seem to. I've been tinkering with the RS11 include file, but can't find a solution. To the best of my knowledge, when CN modified the locomotives, they changed the gear ratio from 74:18 to 62:21 to get 148kph (92mph). I'm not sure if they changed the engine rpm's.

So the nagging question is how to reflect this change in gear ratio in the ORTS files?

[R H Steele]

Elmo313, on 09 July 2021 - 08:01 PM, said:

...
I have come up with a new problem that all my tinkering is not able to solve. No matter what MaxVelocity paramater I enter (yes Gerry, kmh was a typo, now fixed to read 148kph) ORTS only gives the locomotive a speed of 104kph (65mph). I'm assuming that ORTS does not read MaxVelocity statements. I know with steam locomotives it does not seem to. I've been tinkering with the RS11 include file, but can't find a solution. To the best of my knowledge, when CN modified the locomotives, they changed the gear ratio from 74:18 to 62:21 to get 148kph (92mph). I'm not sure if they changed the engine rpm's.

So the nagging question is how to reflect this change in gear ratio in the ORTS files?

Position matters, so once you find the correct position of include statement, sound, or lights in your configuration...make a template.

I don't know if OR uses MaxVelocity...you could check Peter Newell's ( steamer_ctn ) excellent web site Coals to Newcastle --- the place for OR physics, and current listing of parameters that are implemented for Open Rails. You'll have to find an RS11 manual, shop manual or something to get the correct Rpms...I'll see if I have anything. To the best of my knowledge OR has not been coded to recognize gearing in diesel locomotives. I think it has been discussed in the threads. Try some searches here.

Good to hear that you've solved some of the issues!