[eric from trainsim]

atsf37l, on 23 March 2021 - 10:54 PM, said:

Weter, your example looks like it is in signal-free territory without interlocking. As such, for purposes of realism, you would normally stop before encountering the points of that second switch so that your head end 'trainman' can climb down, walk forward, unlock and line the switch (Alt-Left Click). You would then proceed into the side track and when your last car is in the side track your rear end 'trainman' would line and lock the switch back to normal, protecting the main line. :bigboss:

If we are going to play the "realism" card, then the entire concept of throwing switches from the cab needs to go away, since you'd never be able to do it in real life.......

[steved]

eolesen, on 24 March 2021 - 04:19 AM, said:

If we are going to play the "realism" card, then the entire concept of throwing switches from the cab needs to go away, since you'd never be able to do it in real life.......

This right here.
Put on your gloves, get down on the ground and throw the dang switch.
That's the way things get done.

See my profile pic.

Randy

[jonas]

Now it came to my attention that trailing switches cannot be set with ALT + left mouse on paths covered by signals. Even more, if I set a facing switch with ALT + mouse ahead the loco, then all following trailing switches are automatically set "correctly" according to the path (This reminds me of MSTS in a good way).
Then the trailing switches are locked in a way, at least as far as ALT + mouse is used.

EDIT: So the question arises why ALT + mouse doesn't work for trailing switches in this situation, but the G key does work?
So the question arises, why are the trailing switches correctly blocked for ALT + mouse, but the G key can throw them despite the blocking?

Maybe a helpful consideration in customizing the G key in the ORNYMG, Carlo? (see also post #39)

[vince]

All my comments on switching were in response to Weter's post: "So, I've meant AN EXPLORE MODE only, in exactly the same meaning:"

In this mode I was able to leave (via the '8' key) the cab and 'walk' around the yard at Lewistown, Pennsylvania and I was able to change ANY switch there using the Mouse/ALT-Shift method except the ones I mentioned at the engine house/turntable.

Those switches were only operable via the G/Shift-G method as the Mouse method of Alt-Left Click did not work.
Checked the switches in TSRE this morning and they are A1Pnt10dRgt and A1Pnt10dLft default MSTS switches so I'm stumped as to why this happens. Possibly the path I chose does run from the engine house to the TT but like I said these switches operate OK with the G key but not Alt-Shift Mouse.

I've not tested with anything in Activity Mode, only Explore Mode as reported in Weter's post..
The Turntable did not figure in any of the operations I was doing. as I only mentioned it to give the switch locations.
The Explore Mode Path I used was one included with the route with the engine IN the engine house (not the roundhouse) on the track leading to the Turntable.

regards,
vince

edit add info

[atsf37l]

roeter, on 23 March 2021 - 11:54 PM, said:

Yes, I know, this is :offtopic:

In timetable mode, turntables must be used in pools, this allows the pool path definitions to be used to move the engine on and off the turntable. The train is allocated its path as defined in the timetable only when it leaves the turntable. In reverse, the trains path ends when it moves onto the turntable, and again pool paths are used to move the engine to the required store location.
This not only allows engines to use non-aligned entries and exits of the turntable, it also allows AI trains to use the turntable.

Though it would perhaps be possible to set up something similar for activities, using paths defined per turntable, the problem would be how to define the starting location of the engine. The main bottleneck is that you cannot allocate multiple paths to a train, or make a player train a sequence of services.

Regards,
Rob Roeterdink

"Twould be nice." - and "Twould be nices" are just that - if the turntable could act like a multi leg switch that could be programmed when creating a path to "Take other exit." "Twould be nice." And now I will take this off-topic issue and go away. :bigboss:

[Csantucci]

OR NewYear MG rel. 95 has a tentative feature allowing to selectively throwing the first facing switch or the first trailing switch.
In following picture

the extended F8 pop-up window can be seen. At the left side the first switch in front and the first switch behind of the train are displayed (as was up to now), and at the right side the first switch in front and the first switch behind with opposite orientation are shown. So in the upper part the trailing switch just in front of the locomotive is shown on the left side, while the subsequent facing swith is shown on the right side. In this case also backwards the first switch is a trailing one.
All four switches can be thrown by clicking on them (if the reservation/occupation conditions are satisfied), or by using one of following commands:
G: throw first facing switch in front
Shift-G: throw first facing switch behind
Ctrl-G: throw first trailing switch in front
Ctrl-Shift-G: throw first trailing switch behind.

The feature works in explore mode and in manual mode.

There is still a small display issue that I'll try to solve, but it's priority 2.

[Weter]

@Vince
Manual don't give any point on "picked"
When the train is moving, it's much harder to "catch" the switch with cursor, then click Alt+MouseLeft.
@atsf37l
You're right, but:
-the exit signals are just behind the cab-I've passed them to show this switches more closely/clearly;
-I've mentioned earlier (see post #33), that, like Jonas, I talk here only about Explore mode, so desired maneurer is not wrote in plot of an activity.
but there is no traffic and rules, needed to obey.

[jonas]

I've download and try OR NewYear MG rel. 95 - thanks for the quick implementation Carlo, I like it!
I'm not sure, but maybe the F8 window would be a bit more intuitive that way?

[Csantucci]

I had considered that solution, that might be a bit more intuitive, but discarded it because I think that the implemented solution is less intrusive on the screen.

[eric from trainsim]

Thanks, Carlo!

I'm getting ready to do a debug week on a bunch of 3 and 4 track universal crossovers, and this should come in very handy.

[Weter]

Thank for response and solution, Carlo.

[fireflyer]

Csantucci, on 27 March 2021 - 07:49 AM, said:

the extended F8 pop-up window can be seen. At the left side the first switch in front and the first switch behind of the train are displayed (as was up to now), and at the right side the first switch in front and the first switch behind with opposite orientation are shown. So in the upper part the trailing switch just in front of the locomotive is shown on the left side, while the subsequent facing swith is shown on the right side. In this case also backwards the first switch is a trailing one.
All four switches can be thrown by clicking on them (if the reservation/occupation conditions are satisfied), or by using one of following commands:
G: throw first facing switch in front
Shift-G: throw first facing switch behind
Ctrl-G: throw first trailing switch in front
Ctrl-Shift-G: throw first trailing switch behind.

I gave the new ORNYMG revision a try over the weekend, and my personal experience was that I seemed to become easily confused by the changing switches in the window.

As an example, in your post above, Ctrl-G will change the trailing switch shown in the upper left of the switch window, and G will change the facing switch in the upper right. But as soon as the train passes the first switch in front, G now changes the switch in the upper left because it is facing and Ctrl-G changes the upper right (the next trailing switch, which could be several switches down the line). Basically, the shortcuts do not map to the location on the window, but the orientation of the switches. This became confusing to me, especially when traveling over several consecutive switches all facing or all trailing. Then the top right switch could be way down the line somewhere and I don't know what it does to my path.

Again, this is my own personal experience and thoughts on using the facing/trailing switch shortcuts and window. Two suggestions that would work in my case follow, though I understand implementation might be difficult:

• Allow the user to choose between the default window and shortcuts, or the trailing/facing window and shortcuts
  
• Make the window show the next two switches, regardless of orientation, with consistent shortcuts to change the switches immediately before/after the train (left side), and the next switches after those (right side)

Just my 2 cents...

[jonas]

This occures in ORNYMG rel. 95:

(Click the picture to see it as animated gif)
1. The train is still before the signal -> both the facing switch and the following trailing switch are set by G key.


(Click the picture to see it as animated gif)
2. The train has passed the signal -> G key only sets the next facing switch. The trailing switch remains unmoved.




3. The train has passed the first facing switch -> it's not possible to reach the next facing switch (red arrow) by simply clicking on G key, because the trailing switch in between is closed.

Note the difference between picture 1 and 2.
In picture 1 we are in a signaled area, but a few meters further in picture 2 we are (suddenly) in a non-signaled area.

Does that mean for OR in general: If a train successfully passes a signal (and the signal had turned to red) then the switches ahead are considered as being in a non-signaled area?

[Csantucci]

Jonas,
I don't know exactly how the logic allowing or not allowing manual throwing of a switch works. That logic is outside the modification I have inserted, and I don't have modified it. Someone else might be able to answer your question.

fireflyer,
there are other implementation possibilities, of course. To be less confused you might consider that the left hand side of the new window (eye plus the first vertical couple of switches) is identical to the old window.
Anyhow I'm collecting here objections and preferences, and at the end will decide whether to stick to the actual implementation or to modify it.

[Niknak]

Carlo, in response to your comment about collecting opinions on the new switching driver aid window - Love your DemoAutoSounds but would prefer the original switching aid window, probably because I'm old and easily confused lol.