Elvas Tower: Trying to implement goods train behavior in timetable mode - Elvas Tower

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Trying to implement goods train behavior in timetable mode

#31 User is offline   Aldarion 

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Posted 15 April 2024 - 08:14 AM

View PostLaci1959, on 15 April 2024 - 07:00 AM, said:

Hello.

But only if it can be optional, otherwise many people would leave for sure.
The link contains real and a couple of fictitious train sets.

WagonWeb

It would be great for freight trains.

Sincerely, Laci 1959


Some portuguese consists. Real and fictitious:
CPVirtual

#32 User is offline   Weter 

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Posted 15 April 2024 - 08:26 AM

Hm...
What about storing such links View Post View Post in some special place, for present and future activity/timetable authors' reference?

#33 User is offline   Laci1959 

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Posted 17 April 2024 - 04:02 AM

Hello.

There are two options. 1. Creating real freight train traffic
2. Creation of fictitious freight train traffic.
1. To create real freight train traffic, one or more service schedules are required. No matter how strange and unbelievable, freight trains also have a schedule. In the 1st picture, I underlined the stops with a red line. These time data must be entered in the cells at the intersection of the train number (service file name) column and the station name row.
https://kephost.net/p/MTE4OTkxMg.png
2. In order to create fictitious freight train traffic, the graphic equivalent of passenger train traffic must be created. Then you can see between which two passenger trains a freight train can be inserted. Based on the graphic diagram, you can enter the time data in the cells at the intersection of the train number (service file name) column and the station name row. It can also be done by trial and error. A lot of work, a lot of time. Monitoring and recording real traffic can be helpful (if possible).

The second and third pictures show a detail of a timetable based on a real timetable. The freight trains here are fictitious, based on the creator's memories. There is no service schedule from that time. The timetable was prepared by Károly Németh for the Balaton Dél route. Freight trains wait at individual stations because either a train is coming directly or a train of a higher rank is ahead of it. The waiting time for train number 1280 (service name) at Siófok station is 10 minutes. That's why you got a $Forcehold command here. This can be important on a single-track track. Due to other passing trains, it is not advisable to use it in the place recommended in the manual.
There are two possibilities for the practical implementation of reversing movements.

https://kephost.net/p/MTE4OTkxNA.png
1. The train is short, only a few cars. In this case, the matter can be solved with translation points.
2. The arriving train must be shared. In this case, since the station name is usually only one line, the train number (service name) must also be changed at some point. The moving cars are detached from the locomotive of the arriving train. These get a new train number.
For some reason, the creator is angry about the translation points, so he solved all the direction changes by dropping the train number ( service file name ) and introducing a new train number. The locomotive of the train pulls out with a couple of carriages towards the open line or towards the dedicated pull-out track, and then pushes back onto the loading track. This is where the cars hang from it, then the locomotive returns to the front of the train and is attached to it with the $attach command. Meanwhile, the reversing locomotive at the station adds cars to the end of the train, then detaches from it and disappears.

https://kephost.net/p/MTE4OTkxMQ.png
It has many unnecessary columns. It can be solved more easily with translation points. 4 columns would be enough, so that the station reversing locomotive remains visible and receives the appropriate train number for its next task.
This is a very bad example, that's why I'm posting it.

Sincerely, Laci1959

#34 User is offline   rickloader 

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Posted 18 April 2024 - 09:45 AM

Thanks for the timetable examples. It is always interesting to see how the timetable commands are arranged. By translation points you mean reverse points? Too many reverse points in a path can lead to a train losing the attach or transfer commands. It is better to split the train into a new column and train as has been done in your example
Also some commands like $wait or $activate are unreliable on sub paths ( a sub path is formed after reversal)

A problem with freight is that trains stop only to attach , detach, or maybe safety examination and crew change. So very little timing information can be given in timetable mode at present . We need the non stop passing times of stations (platforms) to be recorded.

Rick

#35 User is offline   Weter 

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Posted 18 April 2024 - 06:32 PM

Quote

A problem with freight is that trains stop only to attach , detach, or maybe safety examination and crew change. So very little timing information can be given in timetable mode at present . We need the non stop passing times of stations (platforms) to be recorded.

For passing or overtaking an opposite following trains too. Timings in form "HHppMM" (passing time) is possible to enter, but currently, that is for humen, watching table information only - no affect to game process.
Again, in case the sidings names are unique across the entire route, they are possible to be used as location's name (the headers of table's rows), and it works just as with station names, but they shouldn't repeat for multiple sidings! (like "track 1"). TSRE brings the list of all route's sidings in alphabetical order, so it can be checked and corrected, as it was done for Suojarvi route.

#36 User is offline   Laci1959 

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Posted 19 April 2024 - 12:28 AM

Hello.

Quote

By translation points you mean reverse points?


Reverse point

Quote

Too many


What is "too much" quantified? In some cases, one can be too many compared to zero. Do you have any practical experience with this?
In Hungary, the reversing movements must be completed 10 minutes before the arrival of the train, so the need for a command placed on the path ( path ) has not arisen so far.
In the detail shown in the picture, the locomotive of train 1292 disconnects cars from the train and then takes them to Siófok_8 track (platform). From there it returns to the front of the train and joins train 1292*. These are the remaining cars of the train, which stand here until the reversing movement is completed. It executes the command "7:08-7:09 $keepclear /rear=50 /force $detach /units=5 /static" placed on the Siófok_8 track. Path contains 3 translation points. the second translation point is on the Siófok_8 platform. I tried this several times. It's true there is no e.g. $wait command because it was not needed.
The Timetable file contains 134 trains, actually less because Excel also included the shared trains.
I'm going to try this without the station spare loco, using multiple translation points ( RP ). In other words, I leave the columns Si_tart_vonatra1292 and 1269*_Tolo.

Sincerely, Laci1959

https://kephost.net/p/MTE5MTcyOA.png

#37 User is offline   rickloader 

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Posted 19 April 2024 - 08:52 AM

Thank you for the timetable example. I think your use of the timetable commands is more advanced than mine . How many reverse points ? You can have many if there are no operations to be completed . If you have operations like $detach , attach , transfer , pickup then as few as possible. Also $wait and $activate do not work well after reversing. There is one special case where reversing onto part of the route with no signals will switch from auto signal to auto node. This can be an advantage if signals were causing a problem with callon functions like $pickup or transfer.
In my timetable shunting engines have to take and add carriages from another train ( the train engine remains attached) This needs the transfer command. Because it needs 2 trains to interact, transfer operations seem to need a single column without too many reverse points or extra commands

I have mentioned this on the other timetable thread. Sorry for the repeat. I am not a timetable expert and am pleased to learn how others work.

#38 User is offline   Laci1959 

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Posted 19 April 2024 - 11:15 AM

Hello.

Thanks for the info on the $wait and $activate commands.
This is a great lesson in not generalizing from one experience.
You should always look at what other options are available. Some have to be experienced.
We learn from each other. That's why this forum is so good.
Yes, I read that other thread as well.
I will also try the transfer command.

#39 User is offline   shadowmane 

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 10:10 AM

Looking at the OR manual, I think I figured out my conundrum with Timetable Mode. When you think about a freight railroad, you simply have to use Timetable Groups to handle it. You'll make a separate timetable for passenger rail(or possible more than one); one for unit trains that run on a regular basis; one each for locals that service industries; then there is extras, which can either be one each for switching activities, or one for extra unit trains or manifest trains. IF you have any MOW activity going on, you'll need a timetable for them as well. Combine it all into a Timetable Group and you have your railroad. You could even have a group for every day of the week, giving a more dynamic situation.

My only question is about starting on sidings. When the original document for Timetable Mode was written, you couldn't use a siding to start on. Is this still the case?

#40 User is offline   Weter 

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Posted 24 April 2024 - 10:18 AM

Yes, I split definitions almost the same way, plus - for static consists, plus for going in or out shed units.

The thing with sidings (as rob have told, and I have echoed) - there should be unique sidings names all over particularly route, without any match.
In case of at least two similar siding names - unpredictable consequences would appear.

So, one have to modify the route.

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