[Weter]

I have now one *eng-file of passenger diesel locomotive with EP/Auto brakes and single pipe system.
I'll try to make correct settings for it and show You in next days.

By the way, which type of brake system, brake equipment (wagon section) and brake controllers (engine section) mute be set for EP Only notch to work properly?
Again, our rolling stoch is single-piped;
-freight cars have non-graduated release (full release) distributors (without electric controls), and
-passenger cars have combined triple-valve plus EP valves, allowing brakes to be actuated from both: BP discharge and EP apply signal (without discharge, as small pressure drop is compensated by driver's brake valve almost immediately).
By EP, partial (gradual) release is possible too.
Application is very fast and higher, than by auto brakes actuation (almost up to BP pressure)

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it's not possible to get BT pressures between 4.8 and 5bar

Physically, or it only won't make any effect?

[cesarbl]

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By the way, which type of brake system, brake equipment (wagon section) and brake controllers (engine section) mute be set for EP Only notch to work properly?

Brake System: EP
Brake Equipment: triple valve (not distributor) for full (not graduated) release
Brake Controller: EPOnly token

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passenger cars have combined triple-valve plus EP valves, allowing brakes to be actuated from both: BP discharge and EP apply signal (without discharge, as small pressure drop is compensated by driver's brake valve almost immediately).

Where does the air come from for the EP valve, if there's no main reservoir pipe?

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Physically, or it only won't make any effect?

Obviously, when pressure decreases from 5 bar to 4.8 bar it must take all values between 5 and 4.8bar. The thing is that you cannot make a BP pressure reduction smaller than 0.2bar. When you move the controller to the braking position, pressure will be reduced to 4.8 bar in the first step.

[Weter]

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You say that for your system FullServicePressure=0bar (pressure drop=5bar).

:) no, I've actually meant, that our driver's valves have no self lap, so, as handle will be held in fifth position*, air will be released from BP forever.
But with defined rate.
This causes two linguistic misunderstandings: this position is called "full service", but full means maximal RATE, but not the depth of drop, so, it corresponds to ORTS Apply token as I guess. Word "service" means, that it's normal application, not emergency. Emergency is even faster, which causes every distributor in every car to begin releasing air from BP by itself as well.
Full means, that it's maximal SERVICE (I.e. not yet emergency) rate, because slow application doesn't cause triple valves to actuate brakes and is used for some purposes. About two I've already said above, and rest are lowering pressure of BP in very long trains, for eliminating "brake wave", when triple valves actuate one by one, so the last car will begin braking with 2-5 seconds delay, what can crash the train, by bouncing rear still coasting cars into front, already braking ones.

[Weter]

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Where does the air come from for the EP valve, if there's no main reservoir pipe?

EP valves connect AR to BC (which cause tendency to equalization of pressures in both, so TW ratio - which is AR/BC volumes - comes into the scene), but also, it connect BP too, so pressure drop in ARs is compensated from BP. BP pressure drops as a result, but DW feeds it with air fron locomotive's. MR, just like it was leak through pipes joints)

With pure mechanical brake valve, smaller pressure drops are possible to be made by very short movement, but they will nit have effect on triple valves.

So, both locomotive and cars MUST have EP as system type, and Dustributor for gradual release possibility, but APPLY will work as well, right?

[cesarbl]

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no, I've actually meant, that our driver's valves have no self lap, so, as handle will be held in fifth position*, air will be released from BP forever.

Anyway, if your system has full service pressure of 0 bar, you should set FullServicePressureDrop=MaxSystemPressure. There are systems with non self-lapping brakes but full service pressure of 3.5bar (e.g. PBL2), so this has nothing to do with (non) self lapping.

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This causes two linguistic misunderstandings: this position is called "full service", but full means maximal RATE, but not the depth of drop, so, it corresponds to ORTS Apply token as I guess

Yes, you should use apply for that.

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Emergency is even faster, which causes every distributor in every car to begin releasing air from BP by itself as well

I'll implement the emergency vent valves as soon as possible, which do as you say.

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EP valves connect AR to BC (which cause tendency to equalization of pressures in both, so TW ratio - which is AR/BC volumes - comes into the scene), but also, it connect BP too, so pressure drop in ARs is compensated from BP. BP pressure drops as a result, but DW feeds it with air fron locomotive's. MR, just like it was leak through pipes joints)

This is a different system then. Currently you cannot fully implement it that way, you have to use twin pipe system for EP brakes.

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So, both locomotive and cars MUST have EP as system type, and Dustributor for gradual release possibility, but APPLY will work as well, right?

Yes

[Aldarion]

Is it possible to have wagons fitted with anormal Air sistem but also adding Vaccum_piped?
Meaning that I have these wagons fitted to brake with air brakes but I can use them on old consists with vaccum brakes, and these wagons can be placed anywhere in the consists whithout breaking the vacuum line.

[cesarbl]

Unfortunately that's not possible yet

[Weter]

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if your system has full service pressure of 0 bar

Certainly, full service pressure drop @ TW ratio = 2.5 and BC pressure @ max brake force = 3.8 will be 3.8/2,5 I.e 1.52
Hence 5.3 (which is BP working oressutpre) - 1.52 will be 3.78
This way, we inherit from MSTS here another incorrectly named parameter.

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I'll implement the emergency vent valves as soon as possible

Then, I wonder, what "emergency" state of TWs, indicarpted on Brakes HUD page means at current moment?

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This is a different system then. Currently you cannot fully implement it that way, you have to use twin pipe system for EP brakes.

So, EP won't work correct without twin pipe setting as a system type now?
If You interested - that was a "simple" and cheap solution for compatibility and easier EP upgrade of passenger stock, but it works.

[cesarbl]

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Certainly, full service pressure drop @ TW ratio = 2.5 and BC pressure @ max brake force = 3.8 will be 3.8/2,5 I.e 1.52
Hence 5.3 (which is BP working oressutpre) - 1.52 will be 3.78
This way, we inherit from MSTS here another incorrectly named parameter.

I think we're talking about different parameters. I'm saying that, in your case, TrainBrakesControllerFullServicePressureDrop must be equal to TrainBrakesControllerMaxSystemPressure. This parameter is purely a feature of the driver's brake valve, and it has nothing to do with triple valves or anything. It's just the maximum BP pressure reduction that you will get when applying service brake. Typically for non self lapping brakes pressure will drop to 0 after some time (with some exceptions).
BrakeDistributorFullServicePressure is another parameter which is not needed at all (not used by OR). It is redundant since BP pressure drop for full service application on a triple valve is MaxPressure/(TripleValveRatio+1), in your case 5.3/(1+2.5)=1.51, and BrakeDistributorFullServicePressure=3.79, as you say.
In principle those two parameters are not related, but usually brakes are tuned so that BrakeControllerFullServicePressure=DistributorFullServicePressure (it makes sense to do so). For the brake controller you are talking about, BrakeControllerFullServicePressure=0, but once BP pressure drops before DistributorFullServicePressure you won't get any extra brake force, so you are just wasting air and getting longer brake release.
Also note that MaxBrakeCylPressure is somewhat redundant (not so, because it's used also for EP and emergency brakes), since MaxAutomaticBrakeForce=BrakeDistributorFullServicePressureDrop*TripleValveRatio=5.3*2.5/(1+2.5)=3.78.

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Then, I wonder, what "emergency" state of TWs, indicarpted on Brakes HUD page means at current moment?

It's only used to take air from emergency reservoirs (if present) at the moment.

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So, EP won't work correct without twin pipe setting as a system type now?
If You interested - that was a "simple" and cheap solution for compatibility and easier EP upgrade of passenger stock, but it works.

I'd have to further study that system. Maybe you can use the EP-controlling-BP variant, but I'm not sure.

[Weter]

Hello.

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I think we're talking about different parameters. I'm saying that, in your case, TrainBrakesControllerFullServicePressureDrop must be equal to TrainBrakesControllerMaxSystemPressure. This parameter is purely a feature of the driver's brake valve, and it has nothing to do with triple valves or anything. It's just the maximum BP pressure reduction that you will get when applying service brake. Typically for non self lapping brakes pressure will drop to 0 after some time (with some exceptions).

Sure, I understand that - and that's the reason, for me to say about non-accurate name for given parameter.

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For the brake controller you are talking about, BrakeControllerFullServicePressure=0, but once BP pressure drops before DistributorFullServicePressure you won't get any extra brake force, so you are just wasting air and getting longer brake release.

Exactly so.

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EP-controlling-BP variant

What's this? New system type for inserting into wagon () section?