[Laci1959]

Weter, on 17 February 2022 - 09:37 AM, said:

It sounds as straight-actuated brake.

That's exactly it. It is distinguished by yellow. There is no filler pipe on those vehicles because there is no control car.

[darwins]

Laci1959, on 18 February 2022 - 12:53 AM, said:

If you could assign the automatic brake to TRAIN_BRAKE LEVER and the SME brake to ENGINE_BRAKE LEVER, it would be perfect.
But if it’s the other way around, it’s okay, I just know how to assign it.

I am also learning. I didn't know that the Westinghouse-Henry brake was still in use anywhere in the world today. You can find a description of it from 1912 in this article http://www.zeno.org/...-1912/A/Bremsen

It was also at that time used on Gotthard Bahn , Swiss Federal Railways, and by Baden State Railways on the Schwarzwaldbahn.

I am not sure if it would be at all easy for Peter to make things work as they should, because the SME system at the moment is a bit of a fake with an Air_Twin_Pipe system hidden in the code underneath.

Anyway what would you ultimately need, I think for the trains you are describing it would perhaps be like this for the older one (which is as far as I know what was used on the PLM):

Brake_Direct ( 0 1 0.09 0.30
NumNotches ( 3
Notch ( 0.0 0 TrainBrakesControllerSMEReleaseStart )
Notch ( 0.2 1 TrainBrakesControllerSMEHoldLappedStart )
Notch ( 1.0 0 TrainBrakesControllerSMEApplyStart ) ) )

Brake_Automatic ( 0 1 0.01 0.50
NumNotches ( 5
 Notch ( 0.0 0 TrainBrakesControllerOverchargeStart ) Comment ( RELEASE )
 Notch ( 0.2 0 TrainBrakesControllerReleaseStart ) Comment ( RUNNING )
 Notch ( 0.5 0 TrainBrakesControllerHoldLappedStart  ) Comment ( LAP )
 Notch ( 0.7 0 TrainBrakesControllerFullServiceStart ) Comment ( APPLY )
 Notch ( 1.0 0 TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyStart ) Comment (EMERGENCY) ) )

or like this for the newer model:

Brake_Direct ( 0 1 0.09 0.30
NumNotches ( 3
Notch ( 0.0 0 TrainBrakesControllerSMEReleaseStart )
Notch ( 0.2 1 TrainBrakesControllerSMESelfLapStart )
Notch ( 1.0 0 TrainBrakesControllerSMEApplyStart ) ) )

Brake_Automatic ( 0 1 0.01 0.50
NumNotches ( 5
 Notch ( 0.0 0 TrainBrakesControllerOverchargeStart ) Comment ( RELEASE )
 Notch ( 0.2 0 TrainBrakesControllerReleaseStart ) Comment ( RUNNING )
 Notch ( 0.5 0 TrainBrakesControllerSelfLapStart  ) Comment ( LAP )
 Notch ( 0.7 0 TrainBrakesControllerFullServiceStart ) Comment ( APPLY )
 Notch ( 1.0 0 TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyStart ) Comment (EMERGENCY) ) )

Is that correct? ( I am not sure what kind of automatic brake controls to use for the locos.)

Are there MSTS or OpenRails models of the trains available to download?

Can you provide a link to any website with information about the railways and trains that are using this now?

I did not use Brake_Engine as independent locomotive brakes are already very confused in OR.

[Laci1959]

Brake_Direct ( 0 1 0.09 0.30
NumNotches ( 3
Notch ( 0.0 0 TrainBrakesControllerSMEReleaseStart )
Notch ( 0.2 1 TrainBrakesControllerSMEHoldLappedStart )
Notch ( 1.0 0 TrainBrakesControllerSMEApplyStart ) ) )

Brake_Train ( 0 1 0.02 1
  NumNotches ( 12
  Notch ( 0 0 TrainBrakesControllerOverchargeStart )
  Notch ( 0.01 0 TrainBrakesControllerReleaseStart )
  Notch ( 0.1 0 TrainBrakesControllerHoldLappedStart )
  Notch ( 0.18 0 TrainBrakesControllerEPApplyStart )
  Notch ( 0.27 0 TrainBrakesControllerEPApplyStart )
  Notch ( 0.36 0 TrainBrakesControllerEPApplyStart )
  Notch ( 0.47 0 TrainBrakesControllerEPApplyStart )
  Notch ( 0.63 0 TrainBrakesControllerEPApplyStart )
  Notch ( 0.73 0 TrainBrakesControllerEPApplyStart )
  Notch ( 0.84 0 TrainBrakesControllerEPApplyStart )
  Notch ( 0.93 0 TrainBrakesControllerEPApplyStart )
  Notch ( 0.99 0 TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyStart )
  Notch ( 1 0 TrainBrakesControllerNeutralhandleOffStart )

I have taken over the Brake_Direct setting, instead of Brake_Automatic we are currently using Brake_Train on locomotives. This is the best fit for the KNORR D12 brake currently in use.

Does OR_ know Brake_Direct and Brake_Automatic? If so, we would switch to it continuously in later releases. Will Brake_Direct and Brake_Automatic connect to the ENGINE_BRAKE LEVER, TRAIN_BRAKE LEVER controls in the cvf file?

My linkBudapest Children's Railway
The Mk45 series diesel locomotives of the Children's Railway are equipped with the ABamot2 motor car and the 490,039 steam locomotive with such brakes. The Mk49 will also be equipped with such brakes when its refurbishment is completed.
It is not a Children's Railway locomotive, but it is used everywhere outside of it. This is also good for Etalon:
MÁV Mk48
MSTS-OR model link:
https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

[darwins]

Thanks for that. What an interesting little railway.

Brake_Direct does not exist in ORTS. At the moment Brake_Engine makes sense as a way to do this.

For the Knorr D12 you can now use "Dummy" as a token instead of EP.
This is a similar brake controller based on information at http://www.bremsenbude.de/:

Comment ( Knorr Self Regulating Driver’s Brake Valves Type D )

Brake_Train ( 0 1.0 0.01 0.24
NumNotches ( 13
Notch ( 0.00 0 TrainBrakesControllerOverchargeStart ) Coment ( Sonderstellung )
Notch ( 0.10 0 TrainBrakesControllerReleaseStart ) Comment ( Fahrtstellung )
Notch ( 0.20 0 TrainBrakesControllerNeutralHandleOffStart ) Comment ( Vorspannstellung )
Notch ( 0.24 0 Dummy ) 
Notch ( 0.33 0 Dummy ) 
Notch ( 0.42 0 Dummy ) 
Notch ( 0.51 0 Dummy ) 
Notch ( 0.60 0 Dummy ) 
Notch ( 0.69 0 Dummy ) 
Notch ( 0.78 0 Dummy ) 
Notch ( 0.87 0 Dummy ) 
Notch ( 0.96 0 Dummy ) 
Notch ( 1.00 0 TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyStart ) Comment ( Schnellbremsstellung ) ) )

Brake_Engine ( 0 1 0.5 0
NumNotches ( 3
Notch ( 0.0  0 EngineBrakesControllerReleaseStart ) Comment ( RELEASE )
Notch ( 0.5  0 EngineBrakesControllerHoldLappedStart ) Comment ( LAP )
Notch ( 1.0  0 EngineBrakesControllerFullServiceStart ) Comment ( APPLY ) ) )

Although your D12 seems to have the neutral handle off in a different place, it is otherwise the same.

[Laci1959]

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Although your D12 seems to have the neutral handle off in a different place, it is otherwise the same.
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Yes. The key can be removed when leaving the machine. It was written on Facebook by a driver, so I put it in. Thanks for the tip, I’m going to use Dummy ”.

Quote

A Brake_Direct does not exist in ORTS. At the moment Brake_Engine makes sense as a way to do this.

After all, it doesn't matter to me if I can use the TrainBrakesControllerSME tokens to add it.
The Children's Railway, formerly known as the Pioneer Railway, is quite famous. Children aged 10 to 14 are on duty under the supervision of adults other than driving. Unfortunately, I didn’t have enough of my study average so I couldn’t apply.

[Laci1959]

Weter, on 18 February 2022 - 05:13 PM, said:

Hello,Laci.
Is that correct, that handle is being removed beyond Emergency position, rather Lap?

Hi Weter.

Yes on D12, The driver places the lever in the post-emergency brake position, thus braking the train and locking it. I’m not sure this is a good token, but see if anyone knows the solution.
D2 is after TrainBrakesControllerReleaseStart. TrainBrakesControllerNeutralhandleOffStart keeps everything locked and in this position the driver can take out the key. This is because of the shuttle train operation.

[Traindude]

Here's something I have been hoping to see introduced with ORTS brake systems: Service Reservoirs.

On some older passenger car brake systems in North America, in addition to having the usual auxiliary and/or emergency reservoirs, have a service reservoir.

On the type "UC" equipment, it supplements the auxiliary reservoir in service applications, and all 3 reservoirs are utilized in emergency applications.
Westinghouse UC Brake Manual

On the type "PC" equipment, however, there is no auxiliary reservoir, and instead has just a service reservoir (service applications only) and an emergency reservoir (emergency applications and also the source of air supply for the graduated release function). It should also be noted that the PC system has two separate brake cylinders--one for service applications and another used to supplement the service brake cylinder in emergency applications.
Westinghouse PC Brake Manual

[darwins]

I think adding the service reservoir option would be a positive step forward. I do not personally want to make use of that option. Adding it may lead towards the restructuring of the (air) brake code in OR. At the moment I have to use something rather complex and confusing for a system that does not have an emergency reservoir:

BrakeEquipmentType ( "Distributor, Auxilary_reservoir, Handbrake" )

MaxAuxilaryChargingRate ( 20.0 )
EmergencyResVolumeMultiplier ( 1.0 )
EmergencyResCapacity ( 2.064ft^3 )
EmergencyResChargingRate ( 20.0 )

Hopefully that need to describe the system in such a strange way could be replaced by something more logical like:

BrakeEquipmentType ( "Distributor, Auxilary_reservoir, Handbrake" )

ORTSNumberBrakeCylinders ( 2 )
ORTSBrakeCylinderSize ( 12in )
ORTSAuxilaryResCapacity ( 4.00ft^3 )
MaxAuxilaryChargingRate ( 20.0 )

This would then also lead to a more logical description for the system you have described with service reservoirs:

BrakeEquipmentType ( "Distributor, Auxilary_reservoir, Service_Reservoir, Emergency_Reservoir, Handbrake" )

ORTSNumberBrakeCylinders ( 2 )
ORTSBrakeCylinderSize ( 12in )
ORTSAuxilaryResCapacity ( 1.00ft^3 )
MaxAuxilaryChargingRate ( 10.0 )
EmergencyResCapacity ( 8.00ft^3 )
EmergencyResChargingRate ( 20.0 )
ORTSServiceResCapacity ( 4.00ft^3 )
ORTSServiceResChargingRate ( 20.0 )

The other system described with two brake cylinders would also probably need a new parameter:

BrakeEquipmentType ( "Distributor, Auxilary_reservoir, Emergency_Reservoir, Emergency_Brake_Cylinder, Handbrake" )

In this case I imagine that adding Emergency_Brake_Cylinder to the brake equipment would create a duplicate of the service brake cylinders for use only in emergency.

[Traindude]

Here are some diagrams of various old North American passenger car brake systems to clarify the type of equipment they had.
Here's the earliest passenger car brake system I could find, the type PM equipment:

Here's the equipment that superseded it, the type LN:


As you can see from these diagrams, they get their name from the type of triple valves they use (P and L, respectively) and the type of brake cylinders they use (M and N).

And as a reminder, here's the UC equipment:


And the PC:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a7/Air_brakes%2C_an_up-to-date_treatise_on_the_Westinghouse_air_brake_as_designed_for_passenger_and_freight_service_and_for_electric_cars_%281918%29_%2814783810283%29.jpg/800px-Air_brakes%2C_an_up-to-date_treatise_on_the_Westinghouse_air_brake_as_designed_for_passenger_and_freight_service_and_for_electric_cars_%281918%29_%2814783810283%29.jpg

[Weter]

Thanks for sharing. That's more clear now, seeing the diagrams.
Slack adjuster eliminates increased emptiness, caused by brake shoes wear?