[cr-stagg]

darwins, on 18 July 2021 - 12:41 PM, said:

..............

Those parameters are not required for ORTS steam locos - they are MSTS parameters - diesel and electric locos using tractive force curves can now also be defined without using those parameters.

...................

So when building Consists where does one get that information to know which or how many locos are needed to pull the number/mass of wagons intended for the consist?

[cr-stagg]

Another item: There is no CabView line in either ENG file or the Engine Include file you posted.

[darwins]

Quote

So when building Consists where does one get that information to know which or how many locos are needed to pull the number/mass of wagons intended for the consist?

Such information is normally found in the load book, the working time table or the appendix to the working time table.

https://i.imgur.com/jJsZLFR.jpg

[cr-stagg]

darwins, on 18 July 2021 - 09:51 PM, said:

Such information is normally found in the load book, the working time table or the appendix to the working time table.

My question was not to that specific locomotive or railroad but to all steam locomotives modeled for ORTS.

[darwins]

Sorry, I don't understand the use of MaxSpeed: x MPH, MaxForce: y kN, MaxPower: z kW " to know which or how many locos are needed to pull the number/mass of wagons intended for the consist?"

MaxSpeed: Does this tell you the maximum permitted speed of the locomotive or the maximum theoretical speed of the locomotive? The former is not always specified depending on the date and railway company, the latter may be calculated differently by different people. Both are of limited value unless you also know the timetable, expected maximum speed, expected average speed, the maximum permitted speed of the wagons being pulled and the type of braking system being used.

MaxForce: The starting tractive effort at 85% boiler pressure was always used as a measure to compare steam locos. It is only based on cylinder size, driver diameter and boiler pressure so although it gives you an indication of what load can be moved from a standing start, that is all it does. There is no information about boiler capacity so two locos with the same published T.E. might have totally different performance on the road.

MaxPower: Unless your loco was measured using a dynamometer car, cylinder indicator or test station this is likely to be a very crude estimate for any steam locomotive. I could probably produce you six different formulae for calculating this, each of which would give a different answer. With a diesel or electric locomotive the engine horsepower and the rail horsepower are known with some degree of accuracy, so it is a useful measure for modern traction, but still without knowing about how fast the wagons are allowed to be pulled and what the gradients are and how fast the point to point timings are and what the braking distance is, then it is of limited value.

This is why we need to look for real data from load books and working time tables.

[Weter]

For knowing that IRL the experimental rides are performed. Usually with dynamometric-carriage, coupled between locomotive and consist with known mass.
Along the route of interest with desired speed.
Above max speed, ORTS/MSTS reduces the tractive effort so much, that locomotive can't accelerate further. So in horizontal track it can gain only that speed plus 5 or 15(I don't remember exactly)mph

[pschlik]

Since Eric is working on TSRE again, I'm going to give this topic a bump and hopefully this can be resolved because nearly 4 years later and this is still an issue. I can still find many engines and wagons which TSRE will fail to parse fully but that Open Rails handles just fine because of this difference in understanding.

[Genma Saotome]

IMO this problem has reduced the consist editor to non-functional.

[eric from trainsim]

Have you tried in 8.003?

I did a lot of work to integrate EOTs and load-or files, including fixing relative vs absolute pathing.

First I'm hearing of a different issue around includes.

[pschlik]

Still busted in 8.003, though I don't have any direct comparisons to older versions to know if anything has changed.

As an example in 8.003, I have this tank car PROX 13318. TSRE is detecting some aspects of the wagon, including the weight, but has failed to identify the type of wagon (Freight) and the brake system (Air_single_pipe).

https://i.imgur.com/tmqkcX8.png

I can fire up a consist with this in Open Rails proper without any errors relating to this wag or a missing file. If OR couldn't find the file that declares the brake system type on this thing, it would crash.

https://i.imgur.com/0dfpePt.png

If I look at the 'open in external editor' list for this wagon, I see far fewer files than on a wagon file that isn't showing this sort of missing data. So TSRE is clearly missing some files.

https://i.imgur.com/o6FU7kE.png
https://i.imgur.com/LKUOdn7.png

So this wagon is TRAINS\TRAINSET\SP_SHASTA_FREIGHT\OpenRails\PROX_ACID_TANK_13318_LD.wag, the file that should define the wagon type and brake system type is TRAINS\TRAINSET\Common_psc\Core\Freight_Wagon_Settings_psc.inc, TSRE is failing to grab this file (and some others).

The chain of references goes something like this:

• TRAINS\TRAINSET\SP_SHASTA_FREIGHT\OpenRails\PROX_ACID_TANK_13318_LD.wag -> include ( "..\\..\\Common_psc\\Freight_Cars\\14K_Tank_Loaded_psc.inc" )
• TRAINS\TRAINSET\Common_psc\Freight_Cars\14K_Tank_Loaded_psc.inc -> include ( "..\\..\\Common_psc\\Freight_Cars\\Common\\Preset_14K_Tank_psc.inc" )
• TRAINS\TRAINSET\Common_psc\Freight_Cars\Common\Preset_14K_Tank_psc.inc -> include ( "..\\..\\..\\Common_psc\\Core\\Freight_Wagon_Settings_psc.inc" )
• TRAINS\TRAINSET\Common_psc\Core\Freight_Wagon_Settings_psc.inc -> Type ( Freight ); BrakeSystemType ( "Air_single_pipe" )

TSRE appears to successfully complete steps 1 and 2, but fails at that "include ( "..\\..\\..\\Common_psc\\Core\\Freight_Wagon_Settings_psc.inc" )" line. If I look at the other missing references, they are all include statements contained within TRAINS\TRAINSET\Common_psc\Freight_Cars\Common\Preset_14K_Tank_psc.inc.

The only thing special about Preset_14K_Tank_psc.inc is that it is one level deeper in the folder structure than the other files, and as such it requires three 'up one level' calls in the subsequent include statements to return to the TRAINSET level, while the other include statements only required going up two levels. That smells of the same absolute file reference shenanigans that I pointed out 4 years ago. If I had to guess, TSRE is still seeing "include ( "..\\..\\..\\Common_psc\\Core\\Freight_Wagon_Settings_psc.inc" )" and thinks this file path is being given relative to the original .wag file, TRAINS\TRAINSET\SP_SHASTA_FREIGHT\OpenRails\PROX_ACID_TANK_13318_LD.wag, NOT relative to the file containing the include statement TRAINS\TRAINSET\Common_psc\Freight_Cars\Common\Preset_14K_Tank_psc.inc.

If that include statement is interpreted relative to the .wag file, instead of searching for TRAINS\TRAINSET\Common_psc\Core\Freight_Wagon_Settings_psc.inc, TSRE would be looking for TRAINS\Common_psc\Core\Freight_Wagon_Settings_psc.inc, and this file does not exist.

So, if I copy the "Common_psc" folder from TRAINSET to TRAINS, where TSRE probably thinks it is...TSRE works just fine and detects the wagon type and brake system. This proves to me the problem is still there.

https://i.imgur.com/83mR0r5.png

The one thing that is different is that the TSRE log doesn't seem to be recording these missing file errors like it used to. The log is filled to the brim with stuff about .eot files, freight animations, and .con files but absolutely nothing relating to .inc files and whether or not any are missing.

[eric from trainsim]

Missing includes should still throw a message into the log.

I'll dig into this more tomorrow.

[essakki_99]

trs have some error

how to handled

[Weter]

Hello.
Which errors exactly?