[Amtrak115]

As an exercise in learning it's capabilities, I've been reworking Michael Vone's book related to TSRE. I've run into a couple of issues....

one, I know Ctrl-Q turns automatic TDB update on, however is there any visual clue you are in that mode?
two, I was working through an exercise with dynamic track from MV's book. Basically creating a -0.5 angle with an 80m radius with a slope of -3 degrees. I get through all the track girations...then I Press Z then try to elevate the terrain to the track with F...it just spins it's wheels at that point. Now I just crossed over the edge of a tile if that makes a difference but the dynamic track piece is all within one tile. Any clues to what might be happening?

thanks for any info..

later

Barry

[vince]

There is presently no indication for auto-add to TDB is on or off. Keeping it off is safer, especially for a new user of TSRE.

If you press the 'Z' key after placement and then do the elevation or other adjustments
("....then I Press Z then try to elevate the.....") you have just corrupted the TDB!

A good rule to follow is NEVER move a track section if the Yellow TDB line appears above the section.

The correct sequence is:
1. place track,
2. adjust elevation and for DT, make all curve adjustments,
3. bring terrain to track,
4. press Z to add to the TDB.

I recommend you turn OFF auto add to TDB while adding / adjusting track and so prevent just what you did.
Be sure to make all track adjustments before adding the track section to the TDB.

Doing it manually (the add to TDB) will prevent all sorts of problems that will arise if a track is physically moved after it is added to the TDB.
You must be in Select Mode to toggle auto-add TDB OFF and ON using the Ctrl+Q key combination.

I noticed it's a steeper learning curve if your experienced in the MSTS editors. Old habits die hard.http://www.elvastower.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/pleasantry.gif
It certainly was for me.
Once you get warm and fuzzy with TSRE it's operations are a route builders dream come true.
A look at the PRR-East v2 will show you that. Enjoy!

regards,
vince

[Amtrak115]

 vince, on 18 September 2019 - 09:14 PM, said:

The correct sequence is:
1. place track,
2. adjust elevation and for DT, make all curve adjustments,
3. bring terrain to track,
4. press Z to add to the TDB.

Vince I was following this from "koniec.org/tsre5/retracks.html".....

8. Press Z to add track to TDB (Track DataBase). If you want to remove track from TDB and keep the shape - press Z again.
NOTE: never translate or rotate track when it is in TDB (has yellow line) !!! If you do it, you need to delete this track and place new.
9. When track is in TDB, you can press F to adjust terrain to track. You can do it later, just select track you want to adjust and press F. See more: Editing terrain.

Back in the day...when msts first came out...I toyed with the RE....never could get hang of it. so I'm looking at TSRE with basically fresh eyes' I have to look-up when ever there is a reference to a key seqence in MV's book......to figure out what he is trying to do, then go figure how to do it in TSRE. Dynamic Track is a great example. there are lots of key commands described in MV's book, that are now pretty intuitive on the screen with TSRE.

just thought....is there a "setting" to turn off Auto-update to TDB???

thanks for the info..

Barry

[vince]

Quote

just thought....is there a "setting" to turn off Auto-update to TDB???

Hi Barry,
No there is not . . . yet. It's been requested and I believe GOKU is aware. I've seen requests to make the cursor (pointer) command specific where it would be a unique shape depending on what function is selected. i.e. place new, select and so on.
Use caution in translating keystrokes in M.Vone's book as the keys in TSRE are close but some are very different.

I found it helpful when first using TSRE to make notes comparing key commands in MSTS vs TSRE.

Have a look here for TSRE Tips

regards,
vince

[Genma Saotome]

I'm still concerned about TSRE's backward incompatibility: In one route I have over 120 track shapes whose qdirection() value is unacceptable to the object rotator spreadsheet. That never happened in KUJU's RE. That route will not open in KUJU's RE.

The inability to programmatically fix both the .tdb and .rdb should be a major concern for every route builder. KUJU's RE was bad enough about destroying those files but at least you had a chance of rebuilding them fresh. This is particularly problematic given the ease of moving a track or road shape w/o being aware of having done so.

Yeah, in many ways it is better than Kuju's RE... but in the most important regard -- .tdb and .rdb -- there are big risks present. Changing the cursor appearance to make it specific to important functions will help minimize the risk of inadvertent moving of track and road shapes; the qdirection() problem is probably an easy fix (too many negative values; for comparisons, the object rotator spreadsheet is in our file library). Rebuilding the .tdb/.rdb... I dunno but that seems to me that it might be a real challenge.

[Amtrak115]

 Genma Saotome, on 19 September 2019 - 10:56 AM, said:

I'm still concerned about TSRE's backward incompatibility:

Dave, I hear you and agree. I think that projects such as TSRE and OR, should in fact "read" an MSTS route information however anything saved will only run in OR. That may Tick some folks off, but there are only so many "open source work cycles" in a day..and spending any on keeping compatibility with MSTS is a wasted effort, in my opinion. I'm trying to learn this complex route building process...and I have to start somewhere, so looking back at MSTS and MV's book while these projects are still compatible in some fashion is helpful. Hopefully GOKU's idea (I believe it was him) about "progressive track laying" (I think that what he called it or something like that) will bear fruit and if he declares that TSRE 1.0 will only read MSTS routes....I wouldn't have a problem with that....

anyway...back to whatever I was doing....oh yeah....looking at Dynamic Track......

Barry

[steved]

 Amtrak115, on 19 September 2019 - 04:25 AM, said:

Vince I was following this from "koniec.org/tsre5/retracks.html".....

8. Press Z to add track to TDB (Track DataBase). If you want to remove track from TDB and keep the shape - press Z again.
NOTE: never translate or rotate track when it is in TDB (has yellow line) !!! If you do it, you need to delete this track and place new.
9. When track is in TDB, you can press F to adjust terrain to track. You can do it later, just select track you want to adjust and press F. See more: Editing terrain.

Back in the day...when msts first came out...I toyed with the RE....never could get hang of it. so I'm looking at TSRE with basically fresh eyes' I have to look-up when ever there is a reference to a key seqence in MV's book......to figure out what he is trying to do, then go figure how to do it in TSRE. Dynamic Track is a great example. there are lots of key commands described in MV's book, that are now pretty intuitive on the screen with TSRE.

just thought....is there a "setting" to turn off Auto-update to TDB???

thanks for the info..

Barry

Barry,You can disable it in the settings txt file.
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Steve

[steved]

Adding this line, or uncommenting it, in the settings.txt file turns off automatically writing to the TDB.
writeTDB = false
Steve

[vince]

Hi Steve,
Setting the writeTDB = false will prevent ANY writing to the TDB. This means you cannot install track at all. Track must be in the TDB (yellow line) to allow snapping in the next track section.
and
Not sure what you posted above in post # 7 is Steve but my TSRE settings.txt looks like this:

consoleOutput = false 
# main directory of your game data
#gameRoot = E:\Train Simulator-PRR
gameRoot = E:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Train Simulator

# ROUTE DIRECTORY NAME TO LOAD ON STARTUP BY DEFAULT
#routeName=japan2
#routeName=PRR_EAST_REG-2
routeName=LIRR

#startTileY = 14318
#tartTileX = -11008
#startTileY = 14356
#startTileX = -10946
#startTileY = 14357

# ROUTE EDIT
#createNewIfNotExist = true
writeEnabled = true
writeTDB = true
useTdbEmptyItems = false
#deleteTrWatermarks = true
#deleteViewDbSpheres = true

# GEO DATA
geoPath = F:/hgst

# MISC
#systemTheme = true
#colorConView = #FF0000
#colorShapeView = #00FF00
#toolsHidden = true
usenNumPad = true
tileLod = 2
objectLod = 4000
maxObjLag = 10
allowObjLag = 1000
#cameraFov = 20.0
leaveTrackShapeAfterDelete = false
#renderTrItems = true
#useImperial = false
#ortsEngEnable = false
oglDefaultLineWidth = 2
shadowsEnabled = 0 
#shadowMapSize = 8192
#textureQuality = 4
ignoreMissingGlobalShapes = true
snapableOnlyRot = false
imageMapsUrl = http://api.mapbox.com/v4/mapbox.satellite/{lon},{lat},{zoom}/{res}x{res}.png?access_token=INSERT_YOUR_API_KEY_HERE 
#AASamples = 16
#mapImageResolution = 2048
cameraStickToTerrain = true
#mouseSpeed = 0.1
cameraSpeedMin = 15 
cameraSpeedStd = 0.10
cameraSpeedMax = 2
#mainWindowLayout = W
#ceindowLayout = CU1
#useQuadTree = false
#fogColor = #D0D0FF
#fogDensity = 0.5
#defaultElevationBox = 0
#defaultMoveStep = 0.25

regards,vince

[steved]

Vince,

This is the way I've been doing it.
I check the settings to insure writeTDB=false.
I open TSRE and go to town laying track using the temporary yellow TDB line to get things lined up.
Once everything is in place I save the route and exit.
Go into settings and change it to writeTDB=true.
Now open up TSRE and start clicking and adding track to the TDB.
That way when I'm moving track trying to figure out how to make it work I don't have to worry about hosing the TDB.

Steve

Don't know what happened above, was trying to post a picture.

[vince]

Hi Steve,
That works! That sounds like a very safe way to lay track.
I never thought of doing that and it would have saved me some problems I had while reworking the PRR where I did mistakenly move a track section without removing it first from the database.
http://www.elvastower.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/drinks.gif

regards,
vince

[Genma Saotome]

 Amtrak115, on 19 September 2019 - 11:23 AM, said:

..and spending any on keeping compatibility with MSTS is a wasted effort, in my opinion.
Barry

Yes and no. Qdirection is an excellent way to mathematically represent a directional vector and there is no reason to depart from it. As to why both KUJU's RE and the Object Rotator object to 4 negative values in Qdirection() is something i don't know. That said, if it was only KUJU's RE that could not deal with what TSRE occasionally writes, well, IMO no big deal. OTOH the the object Rotater spreadsheet does things for the route builder that no other software I've seen do: tell you the value of the directional vector between any two points in one or a pair of world files. It'll also tell you the distance between those two points. I've tweeked my copy so I can record the location of one item and it will generate a dozen more instances, each a specified distance apart. Just copy/paste into teh world file. This is an essential feature for any situation where you have a long tangential line of anything... track, road, poles, whatever. TSRE could do these things do... I suggested it on more than one occasion but nothing has come of it. Ok then... don't let the TSRE value of Qdirection() be different than what KUJU's RE would have generated.

As for the second item, .tdb and .rdb; Both are replaceable as far as I am concerned so long as the replacement includes software that will enforce the referential integrity that exists between those files, the world files, and anything else that holds the data for various intereactives. Far too many routes were destroyed over the years from the lack of referential integrity, allowing the editor to remove a shape w/o regard to the consequences in other files. In the meanwhile, while we wait for something better, it is pretty important not to slip into a state of affairs more risky than what we used to work in, so something is needed to rebuild those files as needed. That's the concern, not the future of the files themselves.

[Goku]

 vince, on 19 September 2019 - 05:14 PM, said:

That works! That sounds like a very safe way to lay track.
I never thought of doing that and it would have saved me some problems I had while reworking the PRR where I did mistakenly move a track section without removing it first from the database.

Never use this method. It is very unsafe. You can easily lost data integrity between TDB and W files.

[Amtrak115]

 Goku, on 20 September 2019 - 12:16 PM, said:

Never use this method. It is very unsafe. You can easily lost data integrity between TDB and W files.

Just to Clarify, your talking about the Process of setting the writeTDB=false, laying track, then exiting TSRE, then setting writetdb=true, then opening TSRE and clicking on the track segments and hitting Z to add to the TDB, correct??

Barry

[Amtrak115]

Another Dynamic Track question. I had created a siding and was working backwards from the far end of the sideing back to the start. A 10 meter section of track was less than a meter to short. so I used a piece of Dynamic track to "close the gap", This was a straight piece that I estimated was 10.7 meters to close. Track went down fine, however when I went to add to TDB, (Pressing Z) TSRE Crashes. I tried a couple of times but it crashed every time. I went back into TSRE, Deleted the dynamic track and laid it again...except this time I was directly over the gap looking down on it, and a 10.6 meter piece seem to close the gap. Hit Z and everything was fine, so the assumption on my part was the dynamic track "overlayed" another piece and that caused TSRE to Crash....Correct?

thanks for the info again

Barry