[NickonWheels]

First, as far as I know up until the SD40-2 EMD built GPs and SDs with different axle loadings. For example the GP40 might have 130 us tons or 32,5 per axle whereas the SD40 had 180 us tons or 30 per axle. The difference is´nt much by that point, but earlier engines like the GP9 and SD9 that difference was important when operating lightly built lines. At last it does make sense for the SD40-2 to be heavier, having a longer frame, larger fuel tank and bigger trucks, so it would closely match the GP40 in axle loading. This is most apparent when driving the SLI/TrainSimulations CN Ruel Sub, where you got GP40s, SD40s and SD40-2s all along.

Second, I´m relatively new to ElvasTower (but not to ORTS), so I don´t know many functions of the site and where or even if to put some files in a thread.http://www.elvastower.com/forums/public/style_extra/post_icons/icon13.gif

Third, for some ORTS versions now diesel locomotives don´t work with engine tab but no traction curves, they just would not run for some reason. Having none of it would work I guess, but that´s unrealistic, so in the end you need both to make the engine run. Deleting the MaxForce line altogether would cause strange behavior of the amperemeter in the cab stating an infinitive value. At last you need both MaxForce and MaxPower for the old MSTS functions to work as they are not modified for ORTS use just using data from the engine tab and traction curves.

Nick

[steamer_ctn]

NickonWheels, on 18 December 2019 - 01:10 AM, said:

Third, for some ORTS versions now diesel locomotives don´t work with engine tab but no traction curves, they just would not run for some reason.

Can you provide a couple of the ENG files for diesels that don't work for you in more recent OR versions?

Thanks

[NickonWheels]

The only files I can offer you are about the London & Port Stanley diesels (which are the same files in content), others were modified with my huge collection of include files. Gerry made 176 files while I combined some and made new ones like the RSC-24 the new model by Pual Charland, having 164 files...

[Lamplighter]

Hi,

In this .eng setting, there are many old MSTS parameters that the OR doesn't use - it doesn't work with them:

Damping ( 1e6N/m/s 1e6N/m/s )
Adheasion ( 0.3 0.7 2 0 )
AntiSlip ( 1 )
DerailRailHeight ( 4cm )
DerailRailForce ( 2000kN )
DerailBufferForce ( 2000kN)

The following parameters already include the ORTSDieselEngines block. They are redundant:

MaxDieselLevel( 900gal )
DieselUsedPerHourAtMaxPower ( 60gal )
DieselUsedPerHourAtIdle ( 10gal )
DieselSmokeEffectInitialMagnitude( 2.2 )
DieselSmokeEffectMaxMagnitude( 2.2 )
DieselSmokeEffectInitialSmokeRate( 0.2 )
DieselSmokeEffectMaxSmokeRate( 10 )
DieselEngineIdleRPM( 325 )
DieselEngineMaxRPM( 835 )
DieselEngineSpeedOfMaxTractiveEffort( 13mph )
DieselEngineMaxRPMChangeRate( 40 )
MaxTemperature ( 120 )
MaxOilPressure ( 90 )

[R H Steele]

NickonWheels, on 18 December 2019 - 01:10 AM, said:

Third, for some ORTS versions now diesel locomotives don´t work with engine tab but no traction curves, they just would not run for some reason. Having none of it would work I guess, but that´s unrealistic, so in the end you need both to make the engine run. Deleting the MaxForce line altogether would cause strange behavior of the amperemeter in the cab stating an infinitive value. At last you need both MaxForce and MaxPower for the old MSTS functions to work as they are not modified for ORTS use just using data from the engine tab and traction curves.
Nick

NickonWheels, on 18 December 2019 - 03:33 AM, said:

The only files I can offer you are about the London & Port Stanley diesels (which are the same files in content), others were modified with my huge collection of include files. Gerry made 176 files while I combined some and made new ones like the RSC-24 the new model by Pual Charland, having 164 files...
CANG12v1.eng

I ran some tests and can confirm Nicks problem with this specific engine. Since I use the OpenRails folder with include files, I did not alter the MSTS engine file...attached are the files I used.
1. In the last stable version of OR --- Ver1.3, the locomotive operated properly, using the OR engine definition --- with or without the ORTS Max Tractive curves
2. Using Release 42 of OR monogame, the locomotive would not operate with the OR engine definition alone --- the ORTS curve set had to be present.

I even tried it without the curve set but with Maxforce and Max continuous force value present ( as seen below ) and nothing. So there is a bug... Also got a complete yellow screen when switching to locomotive HUD -- lasted for about 5 or seconds until the hud loaded I suppose.
OpenRails include engine file:

include ( "..\\CANG12v1.eng" )
Wagon (
	Mass ( 108862kg )
	include ( "..\\..\\Common.inc\\Locomotives\\Couplers\\Std_Type-E_Coupler_Tight.inc" )
	include ( "..\\..\\Common.inc\\Locomotives\\Brakes\\Std_Loco_Brakes_1stGEN.inc" )
	ORTSAdhesion ( ORTSCurtius_Kniffler ( 7.5 44 0.161 0.7 ) )
	ORTSAdhesion ( ORTSSlipWarningThreshold ( 62 ) )
	ORTSBearingType ( Roller )
	ORTSDavis_A ( 1210.11 )
	ORTSDavis_B ( 35.8335 )
	ORTSDavis_C ( 5.226841 )
	Comment( == Assumptions -Locomotive diesel/electric - speed - 65mph (105km/h), Roller Bearing, 4 axles, frontal area - 10.1m2, Wagon Weight - 108.9 ton (metric), Drag 1.0 == )
)
Engine (
	Effects (
		DieselSpecialEffects (
			Exhaust1 (
			0 3.62 -0.440
			0 1 0
			0.15
			)
        	Exhaust2 (
			0 3.76 -1.34
			0 1 0
			0.15
			)
		)
	)
	include ( "..\\..\\Common.inc\\Locomotives\\Std_Eng_EMD_G12.inc" )
)

Std engine file with curve section commented out -- locomotive would not move when curves weren't present in the file --- it does work in last stable version.

Comment ( VER2 Standard ORTS Diesel Engine for EMD G12 )
Comment ( Wikipedia and MSTS Engine file )
Comment ( Power Ratings == Gross HP 1421 == Traction HP 1300 == Rail HP 1060 )
Comment ( Continuous Tractive Effort 31473lb @ 12.46mph==81.5%eff. == Starting Tractive Effort 60000lb )
Comment ( Mass 240000lbs = 108.862t == metric, Adhesion Factor = 25.0% )
Comment ( Mass×Adhesion Factor = Starting Tractive Effort )
Comment ( Brake HP -- bhp = Power-at-the-shaft = Gross HP or MaximalPower )
Comment ( Traction HP = Alternator/Generator Input HP )
Comment ( Gross HP per technical specs or lacking good data == add 130hp to 150hp to Traction HP )
Comment ( include ( "..\\..\\Common.inc\\Locomotives\\Std_Eng_EMD_G12.inc" ) )

ORTSDieselEngines ( 1			
	Diesel (		
	IdleRPM ( 325 )		
	MaxRPM ( 835 )		
	StartingRPM ( 225 )		
	StartingConfirmRPM ( 375 )		
	ChangeUpRPMps ( 73 )		
	ChangeDownRPMps ( 46 )		
	RateOfChangeUpRPMpSS ( 11 )		
	RateOfChangeDownRPMpSS ( 7 )		
	MaximalPower ( 1059640W )		
	IdleExhaust ( 1.2 )		
	MaxExhaust ( 2.2 )		
	ExhaustDynamics ( 1.6 )		
	ExhaustDynamicsDown ( 0.8 )		
	ExhaustColor ( 20161819 )		
	ExhaustTransientColor ( 40212324 )		
	DieselPowerTab (		
		0	0
		325	132735
		398	264724
		471	397458
		544	530193
		617	662182
		690	794916
		763	926905
		835	1059640
	)		
	DieselConsumptionTab (		
		0	0
		325	37.9
		835	227.1
	)		
	ThrottleRPMTab (		
		0	325
		12.5	325
		25	398
		37.5	471
		50	544
		62.5	617
		75	690
		87.5	763
		100	835
	)		
	DieselTorqueTab (		
		0	0
		325	31133
		398	25423
		471	21483
		544	18600
		617	16399
		690	14664
		763	13261
		835	12118
	)		
	MinOilPressure ( 25psi )		
	MaxOilPressure ( 70psi )		
	MaxTemperature ( 120degc )		
	Cooling ( 3 )		
	TempTimeConstant ( 720 )		
	OptTemperature ( 71degc )		
	IdleTemperature ( 55degc )		
	)		
)
ORTSEmergencyCausesThrottleDown ( 0 )
	ORTSWheelSlipCausesThrottleDown ( 0 )
	ORTSMainResChargingRate ( 0.4psi/s )
	ORTSBrakePipeChargingRate ( 200psi/s )
	ORTSEngineBrakeReleaseRate ( 38psi/s )
	ORTSEngineBrakeApplicationRate ( 34psi/s )
	ORTSBrakePipeTimeFactor ( 0.003 )
	ORTSBrakeEmergencyTimeFactor ( 0.1 )
	ORTSBrakeServiceTimeFactor ( 1.009 )
	TrainPipeLeakRate ( 0.0833psi/s )
	TrainBrakesControllerMaxReleaseRate ( 10psi/s )

MaxForce ( 267093N )
MaxContinuousForce ( 140000N )
Comment ( ORTSMaxTractiveForceCurves (
		0 (			
			0	0	
			2.92	0	
			3.44	0	
			4.16	0	
			5.19	0	
			6.57	0	
			8.63	0	
			11.35	0	
			14.75	0	
			19.67	0	
			26.38	0	)
	0.125 (				
			0	33490	
			2.92	33490	
			3.44	28409	
			4.16	23522	
			5.19	18858	
			6.57	14881	
			8.63	11335	
			11.35	8613	
			14.75	6629	
			19.67	4972	
			26.38	3708	)
	0.25 (				
			0	66774	
			2.92	66774	
			3.44	56644	
			4.16	46899	
			5.19	37600	
			6.57	29671	
			8.63	22599	
			11.35	17172	
			14.75	13217	
			19.67	9913	
			26.38	7393	)
	0.375 (				
			0	100263	
			2.92	100263	
			3.44	85052	
			4.16	70420	
			5.19	56457	
			6.57	44551	
			8.63	33933	
			11.35	25784	
			14.75	19846	
			19.67	14885	
			26.38	11100	)
	0.50 (				
			0	133547	
			2.92	133547	
			3.44	113287	
			4.16	93797	
			5.19	75199	
			6.57	59341	
			8.63	45198	
			11.35	34343	
			14.75	26434	
			19.67	19826	
			26.38	14785	)
	0.625 (				
			0	167036	
			2.92	167036	
			3.44	141695	
			4.16	117318	
			5.19	94057	
			6.57	74222	
			8.63	56532	
			11.35	42955	
			14.75	33063	
			19.67	24797	
			26.38	18493	)
	0.75 (				
			0	200320	
			2.92	200320	
			3.44	169930	
			4.16	140695	
			5.19	112798	
			6.57	89011	
			8.63	67796	
			11.35	51515	
			14.75	39651	
			19.67	29738	
			26.38	22178	)
	0.875 (				
			0	233809	
			2.92	233809	
			3.44	198339	
			4.16	164216	
			5.19	131656	
			6.57	103892	
			8.63	79130	
			11.35	60127	
			14.75	46279	
			19.67	34710	
			26.38	25885	)
	1.0 (				
			0	267093	
			2.92	267093	
			3.44	226573	
			4.16	187593	
			5.19	150398	
			6.57	118681	
			8.63	90395	
			11.35	68686	
			14.75	52867	
			19.67	39651	
			26.38	29570	)
		) )

[steamer_ctn]

NickonWheels, on 18 December 2019 - 03:33 AM, said:

The only files I can offer you are about the London & Port Stanley diesels (which are the same files in content), others were modified with my huge collection of include files. Gerry made 176 files while I combined some and made new ones like the RSC-24 the new model by Pual Charland, having 164 files...

Thanks, I will have a look at it.

[R H Steele]

Also does not work in most recent testing version released Dec 13th....to restate >>> works fine in stable version 1.3.4310

[Lamplighter]

Well, yes. The same thing I pointed out here in this thread.
I know the problem is being worked on.
There is probably no other option but to stay in stable version 1.3. At least until the new solution works reliably.
I am convinced that many diesel engines are already set with the ORTSDieselEngines parameter, but without ORTSMaxTractiveForceCurves (including my own).

[NickonWheels]

To Lamplighter, MaxDieselLevel is required somewhere in the .eng file, otherwise ORTS takes something weird as fuel quantity. For the LP&S diesels they get 5000 liters for example.

In general I don´t know if requiring the tracton curves in the recent versions to actually make the engine run is a bug. In all it´s good to have traction curves, it is problematic to calculate the values of them. I noticed some of you had a calculation looking like an Excel tab, must work pretty good. My calculations started this way too before merging it into power & fuel consumption to get one ready program (yes, just an .exe file) to make includes nearly as much as Gerry did. Thanks...

[Lamplighter]

Well, but I don't understand why you're using the ORTSDieselEngines block and its DieselConsumptionTab parameter if you have any doubts about its proper operation.

Traction curves can be obtained from real graphs and rewritten into Excel (and later written to .eng).
Of course, there are also more sophisticated tools that can be used to calculate traction characteristics. However, they use many input parameters that may not be readily available. It is used by companies engaged in the production and research of railway vehicles. And also schools and research centers in the field of transport technology.