[steamer_ctn]

Since becoming involved in the development of the steam locomotive model for OR I have been working to the following broad aims:

i) to implement a physics representation that supports a realistic "look and feel" for the operation of steam locomotives
ii) to make the definition (ENG file) of steam locomotive as easy as possible, so that anybody can quickly and easily define a steam locomotive for OR

Item ii) has been driven by the fact that many of the MSTS files seem to contain "errors", which in some instances detract from the realistic performance of the steam locomotive.

My strategy to address item ii) is:
i) Simplify the ENG file parameters required to those which can easily be found or calculated (most calculations already done in OR) without a huge effort
ii) Develop a supporting website describing standard test route and processes so that consistent results can be obtained for confirming and adjusting steam locomotive performance (or the OR code as required).
iii) Provide relevant information and working examples to demonstrate the configurations of different types of steam locomotives.

However given the time I spend on researching and developing OR code, plus other life priorities, the website doesn't always reflect the latest advances and refinements to the OR code.

Therefore I wish to work with steam buffs ( or any interested community members) to maintain what I hope is a valuable resource for OR modellers. This assistance can be from any interested community member(s), as no "development" skills are required, just an interest in the topic, and the willingness to commit time to the project.

It is anticipated that the following types of activities may need to be undertaken:
i) Review of website material for consistency, accuracy and clarity. Provision of any suggested changes would be in a form that could be "cut and pasted" into the webpage.
ii) Review of working model examples for accuracy, and updated as required from time to time.
iii) Research appropriate information in support of OR functionality, etc.
iv) Run appropriate tests as required

If you have the time, and are interested in assisting, then please let me know.

Thanks

[captain_bazza]

This is worth doing.

Cheers Bazza.

[SP 0-6-0]

Ok, I still have an axe to grind with the ORTS water tenders. From my original discussion this is what was implemented.

In #3298 functionality to support a water gin (as known in NSW (Australia) or an aux tender as known by others) has been added.

This function supports a single aux tender coupled directly behind the normal tender or locomotive. Like the normal tender, it only increases and decreases water volume. Wagon weight does not vary with water consumption.

As the aux tender and tender are connected together, the water levels will equalise between the two.

The aux tender will be refilled through the locomotive tender using the standard refill function.

To activate it, add the following line to the WAG file of a suitable wagon:

ORTSAuxTenderWaterMass ( 70000lb ) Comment ( water capacity 7000 UK gallons)


The unit of measure are mass.


I am still not happy with this at all. ORTS needs to be changed to have the is istenderrequired line used just like MSTS does. Uncouple the tender and the fuel goes to 0% in MSTS.


So what ORTS engine code needs is something that goes like this,

IsTenderRequired(0)_ The locomotive is a tank locomotive.

IsTenderRequired(1)_Main engine fuel tender. (Water & Coal)

The pyshics of ORTS would need to be adjusted to account for the mass of the tender and the varying amount of water coal or oil that is on board the tender.

Then we could have say up to a total number of tenders being 4. This would allow for ORTS to use water tenders and register the extra water capacity.

This would then also have to be added and adjusted in the Eng file of the locomotive.

So,

IsTenderRequired(2)_Main engine tender and 1 aux water tender in the consist.

IsTenderRequired(3)_Main engine tender and 2 aux water tenders in the consist.


Maybe in the future the weights and volumes can be placed in the wag files and actually reduce as water/fuel is used.

Robert

[Lindsayts]

 steamer_ctn, on 25 February 2016 - 01:57 PM, said:

Since becoming involved in the development of the steam locomotive model for OR I have been working to the following broad aims:

i) to implement a physics representation that supports a realistic "look and feel" for the operation of steam locomotives
ii) to make the definition (ENG file) of steam locomotive as easy as possible, so that anybody can quickly and easily define a steam locomotive for OR

Item ii) has been driven by the fact that many of the MSTS files seem to contain "errors", which in some instances detract from the realistic performance of the steam locomotive.

My strategy to address item ii) is:
i) Simplify the ENG file parameters required to those which can easily be found or calculated (most calculations already done in OR) without a huge effort
ii) Develop a supporting website describing standard test route and processes so that consistent results can be obtained for confirming and adjusting steam locomotive performance (or the OR code as required).
iii) Provide relevant information and working examples to demonstrate the configurations of different types of steam locomotives.

However given the time I spend on researching and developing OR code, plus other life priorities, the website doesn't always reflect the latest advances and refinements to the OR code.

Therefore I wish to work with steam buffs ( or any interested community members) to maintain what I hope is a valuable resource for OR modellers. This assistance can be from any interested community member(s), as no "development" skills are required, just an interest in the topic, and the willingness to commit time to the project.

It is anticipated that the following types of activities may need to be undertaken:
i) Review of website material for consistency, accuracy and clarity. Provision of any suggested changes would be in a form that could be "cut and pasted" into the webpage.
ii) Review of working model examples for accuracy, and updated as required from time to time.
iii) Research appropriate information in support of OR functionality, etc.
iv) Run appropriate tests as required

If you have the time, and are interested in assisting, then please let me know.

Thanks

From my point of view I have found the Physics section of coals to Newcastle is well set out and the models I have tried are good. A problem in what you are asking is the level of your knowledge is a good step above most people in the community, even here on elvastower so you will probably have trouble finding anyone that can find any holes at all. My experience is less than 1 percent of rail fans will have any real idea of what you are talking about. For instance just ask anyone about locomotive power.

I have generally found the performance "out of the box" so to speak of steamers in railpage is excellent, the ONLY problem I have had is after a good bit of time one losses steam and can go no further. This though would be a code bug and is very unlikely be due to any lack of knowledge. I have found the code itself now MUCH easier to work our compared with the pigs breakfast it used to be,

I do have differences with some whats been done, but a lot of this is largely due to the way I see things should be and not any real challenge on your knowledge.

You have done excellent work and I am sure you know who this is comming from.

Lindsay

[Hobo]

Hi Peter !
I do think your idea is a very good one and I hope that it can come to life . It would make it much easier for " We - the bench racers " to adjust and understand the steam engine and the physics of one . There are some members out there that do know and understand steam and could be very useful to your project .
The main problem that I see constantly , from complaints that are wrongfully blamed on OR , is that most of " We - the bench racers " don't know how to operate a steam locomotive properly . WE seem to forget that it's not a car , truck , bulldozer etc and forget or don't know that " Steam " has to be treated and operated much differently than an internal combustion engine .
Having said that , the proper engine file would really help cover up many " pilot errors " .

Good Suggestion !

[steamer_ctn]

 SP 0-6-0, on 25 February 2016 - 06:05 PM, said:

Ok, I still have an axe to grind with the ORTS water tenders.

It would be good if any relevant suggestions and feedback should be put into the thread relevant to this feature, or alternatively a new thread can be raised to discuss this, rather then taking this thread in a "different" direction.

 Lindsayts, on 26 February 2016 - 12:54 AM, said:

A problem in what you are asking is the level of your knowledge is a good step above most people in the community, even here on elvastower so you will probably have trouble finding anyone that can find any holes at all. My experience is less than 1 percent of rail fans will have any real idea of what you are talking about. For instance just ask anyone about locomotive power.

I agree that we are all at different levels of expertise, but we all have to start at the same point (ie no knowledge). Therefore by participating in this type of opportunity, and with a willingness to learn these skills can be developed.

Therefore the skill level should not stop people from wanting to assist.

By assisting it will spread the "load" for developing documentation and sharing knowledge gathering across a larger number of people so that this can ultimately benefit the whole community.

Everybody can bring something to the table and contribute in some way.

 Lindsayts, on 26 February 2016 - 12:54 AM, said:

the ONLY problem I have had is after a good bit of time one losses steam and can go no further. This though would be a code bug and is very unlikely be due to any lack of knowledge.

By developing standard testing processes, and having defined performance expectations for relevant locomotives, we can pinpoint potential issues, including potential code problems.

[Leafyseadragon]

 steamer_ctn, on 26 February 2016 - 10:51 PM, said:

It would be good if any relevant suggestions and feedback should be put into the thread relevant to this feature, or alternatively a new thread can be raised to discuss this, rather then taking this thread in a "different" direction.


I agree that we are all at different levels of expertise, but we all have to start at the same point (ie no knowledge). Therefore by participating in this type of opportunity, and with a willingness to learn these skills can be developed.

Therefore the skill level should not stop people from wanting to assist.

By assisting it will spread the "load" for developing documentation and sharing knowledge gathering across a larger number of people so that this can ultimately benefit the whole community.

Everybody can bring something to the table and contribute in some way.


By developing standard testing processes, and having defined performance expectations for relevant locomotives, we can pinpoint potential issues, including potential code problems.

Hi CTN, this is my first post here.

Back in the early 2000's I downloaded an interesting DOS program which simulated steam loco fuel, water consumption and HP developed etc.
Using some of O.S. Nocks data from some of his various books on Locomotive efficiency I was able to recreate some of the express passenger steam hauled runs (in the UK) in the Steam Locomotive Simulator.
The simulator created data in the form of tables which can be exported to a spreadsheet. I was quite impressed with the accuracy of the results from the simulator when compared to O.S. Nock's data.
As you can imagine a DOS in a window application with a graphical interface is very basic but quite easy to use and with a bit of imagination a downhill run at high speed is quite exhilarating!
The program is still available at www.battewell.freeserve.co.uk

Would this program be helpful as tool to improve the Steam Loco model in OR?

David

[steamer_ctn]

Hi David,

 Leafyseadragon, on 27 February 2016 - 04:54 PM, said:

this is my first post here.

Welcome to the forums.

 Leafyseadragon, on 27 February 2016 - 04:54 PM, said:

Would this program be helpful as tool to improve the Steam Loco model in OR?

Can you expand on how you would envisage that this program can be used to improve the steam loco model?

Thanks

[Leafyseadragon]

 steamer_ctn, on 27 February 2016 - 10:16 PM, said:

Hi David,

Welcome to the forums.


Can you expand on how you would envisage that this program can be used to improve the steam loco model?

Thanks

Hi Peter and thanks,

I came across the 'Steam Locomotive Simulator' back in 2003 and initially set it up with locomotives and routes which matched those in the books by O.S.Nock and was pleasantly surprised that the water and coal consumption results from the 'Steam Locomotive Simulator' were pretty close to the O.S. Nock Data.

Anyway, Long story longer! I think the 'Steam Locomotive Simulator' could be used as a yard stick or datum to measure or predict the Locomotive performance you would expect in the real world and in Open Rails. The eng file could be tweaked to suit.
That said I have not used it for about 12 years and perhaps the Thermodynamic model in Open Rails is already okay or close enough?
I should put my money where my mouth is and do some testing!
I realise doing a comparison between two simulators is not ideal but in the absence of real world data it may at the very least be a good approximation.
I thought it was worth mentioning considering the thread subject. I might add I don't have any affiliation with the creator of 'Steam Locomotive Simulator'

By the way, you're doing an excellent job to get Open Rails this far. You and the other volunteers deserve some kind of a medal for your efforts.

David