[Genma Saotome]

 Kazareh, on 23 February 2016 - 06:10 PM, said:

The time it takes for me to move the brake lever to the release state, and the pressure to drop from wherever it is to 0PSI in the Brake Cylinder.

Ok, that is controlled by the MaxReleaseRate() parameter in each of your .wags and .engs. My research on US equipment shows the release time is not quite instantaneous... a brake cylinder on a US car should be able to dump it's contents in a couple of seconds.

I have no information about what is correct for other countries (except for Canada and Mexico who, AFAIK, used the same equipment as was used in the US). The most common brake equipment was made by the Westinghouse Air Brake Company (or its licensees), also known as WABCO or perhaps the New York Brake Company whose equipment was functionally identical.

[Coonskin]

For what it's worth:

(Below is in regards to USA railroading.)

With a 26L brake valve equipped locomotive handling today's freight cars and release rates:

I have a location that I frequently use just train air to stop for a Stop Sign. The train is headed downgrade. If power/stretch braked to a stop, or if the engines are simply bailed-off, this results in stopping the train stretched. If I have a short train, as mentioned above, once I stop in a stretched state, IF I am going to have to wait a bit (for another train to clear/etc), I typically will kick off the brakes to allow the reservoirs to recharge. This will mean that as the cars release, you'll feel some slight slack running in against the locomotive(s), which have their independent brakes fully on. With a short cut of cars (8-12 or so), from kicking off the train air to feeling the slack come in will be several seconds. I have not actually counted, but it's less than a minute but probably more than 30 seconds.

Second point:

Most 26L brake valves have a three position cut-out switch labeled:

OUT
IN
PASS

When the cut-out is in the OUT position, no air will reach the train line. (This position is used primarily for setting up trailing diesel electric locomotives in the "TRAIL" position. However, the "OUT" position is helpful in other situations, but I digress.)

When the cut-out is in the IN position, air goes to the train line. In this setting, tehre is no graduated release. It's all or nothing when it comes to releasing. This is pretty much standard affair for freight cars in the USA.

When in the PASS position, there IS graduated release with the caveat that the cars must be equipped with graduated release brake valving. (i.e. In the USA: Passenger cars so equipped.) PASS position is also handy for a locomotive that has a leaking EQ reservoir and you're handling a train of significant length descending a grade of significant gradient and length. For if in the PASS position, the brake valves will automatically maintain without use of the EQ reservoir: Peace and harmony for the Engineer as the leaking EQ will not continue to draw down the brakes to the point the train stops or mandates a release/reset x ?? times. (Ever hear of the term "Pis*ed off his air"? Just keep setting/releasing without giving the reservoirs time to recharge, and you'll learn first hand what it means.) This maintaining feature in PASS position also comes with a caveat: If you inadvertently bump/move the brake handle toward the release position while in PASS and the brake valve is holding a brake set... you will initiate a complete release of the brakes on the freight cars.

Don't know if any of the above helps, but I was in a mood to pontificate.

[Genma Saotome]

I does help. I've heard from a number of engineers that the brakes release is instant... but when pressed instant becomes something more, something like PDQ, whatever number of seconds that might be, and that in comparison to pumping up the brake line the release is instant... in a relative way of speaking. So ~30, maybe a bit more, is a more useful number than PDQ. IICR one engineer told me it was under 30 so at least for modern equipment that sounds like a safe figure to use.

It all comes down to the size of the air passage in the controlling valve, right? Do you know if that varied by equipment era? K --> AB --> ABD --> whatever.

[Kazareh]

I understand that, however even with a s I mentioend, with a 8 or 10 car train? It takes over a minute, not a matter of seconds. And it is more than the Amtrak equipment. That was what I was running at the time, but 90% of my rolling stock is plagued by this issue.

[ATW]

May we know the Brake Pipe Charging rate as well as Main Res Volume?

[Kazareh]

 ATW, on 24 February 2016 - 11:24 PM, said:

May we know the Brake Pipe Charging rate as well as Main Res Volume?

Of what, the cars or the locomotive, or both?

[Hamza97]

On my 21 car passenger train, the initial charging (at time of game start) takes roughly 35-40 secs. After that normal release after an initial application is almost instant 3-4secs, whereas higher brake force application (35% is highest I had to go) took about 25-30 sec.

Hope above is of some help.... :)

[ATW]

 Kazareh, on 25 February 2016 - 07:46 AM, said:

Of what, the cars or the locomotive, or both?

The locomotives mainly but both may be fine.

As well as the options BP charging rate an if graduated.

[Coonskin]

Yesterday I had a short train of 8 cars. I intentionally stopped them stretched on a downgrade move requiring a stop. I looked at my watch, and released. From the time of release, to the time that I felt slack beginning to bump me was 45 seconds.

They were by no means recharged, just released.

That's with modern USA railroad equipment.

[Kazareh]

 ATW, on 25 February 2016 - 11:31 PM, said:

The locomotives mainly but both may be fine.

As well as the options BP charging rate an if graduated.

21PSI/s

This is all the information for braking it has for the engine:

BrakeEquipmentType ( "Triple_valve, Auxilary_reservoir, Emergency_brake_reservoir" )

BrakeSystemType ( "Air_single_pipe" )
MaxBrakeForce( 111.3kN )

EmergencyBrakeResMaxPressure( 90 )
TripleValveRatio( 2.5 )
EmergencyResVolumeMultiplier ( 1.461 )
MaxReleaseRate( 600 )
MaxApplicationRate( 10 )
MaxAuxilaryChargingRate( 600 )
EmergencyResCapacity( 100 )
EmergencyResChargingRate( 600 )
BrakeCylinderPressureForMaxBrakeBrakeForce( 70 )

AirBrakesAirCompressorPowerRating( 3.1 )
AirBrakesMainMinResAirPressure( 14.7 )
AirBrakesMainMaxAirPressure( 140 )
AirBrakesMainResVolume( 170 )
AirBrakesAirCompressorWattage( 12.6kw )
AirBrakesCompressorRestartPressure( 134 )
AirBrakesAirUsedPerPoundsOfBrakePipePressure( 1.44 )
AirBrakesIsCompressorElectricOrMechanical( 0 )

EngineBrakesControllerMinPressureReduction( 6 )
TrainBrakesControllerMinPressureReduction( 6 )
EngineBrakesControllerHasProportionalBrake( 1 )
EngineBrakesProportionalBrakeLag( 0.45 )
EngineBrakesControllerMaxApplicationRate( 7 )
TrainBrakesControllerMaxApplicationRate( 3 )
EngineBrakesControllerMaxReleaseRate( 10 )
TrainBrakesControllerMaxReleaseRate( 2.5 )
EngineBrakesControllerEmergencyApplicationRate( 8 )
TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyApplicationRate( 7 )
EngineBrakesControllerMinSystemPressure( 15 )
TrainBrakesControllerMinSystemPressure( 15 )
EngineBrakesControllerMaxSystemPressure( 90 )
TrainBrakesControllerMaxSystemPressure( 90 )
EngineBrakesControllerEmergencyBrakeTimePenalty( 60 )
TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyBrakeTimePenalty( 60 )
EngineBrakesControllerFullServicePressureDrop( 26 )
TrainBrakesControllerFullServicePressureDrop( 26 )

DynamicBrakesMinUsableSpeed( 3.5 )
DynamicBrakesMaximumEffectiveSpeed( 38 )
DynamicBrakesMaximumForce( 332.28kN )
DynamicBrakesResistorCurrentLimit ( 900 )
DynamicBrakesCutInSpeed( 6.5 )
DynamicBrakesMaxAirBrakePressure ( 50 )
DynamicBrakesFadingSpeed( 7 )
DynamicBrakesDelayTimeBeforeEngaging ( 7 )
DynamicBrakesMaximumSpeedForFadeOut ( 470 )
DynamicBrakesEffectAtMaximumFadeOut( 0 )
DynamicBrakesHigherSpeedCurveExponent( 10.4 )
DynamicBrakesLowerSpeedCurveExponent( 0.9 )
DynamicBrakesNumberOfControllerNotches( 1 )
DynamicBrakeHasAutoBailOff ( 1 )

BrakesEngineBrakeType ( "Air_single_pipe" )
BrakesTrainBrakeType ( "Air_single_pipe" )
BrakesEngineControllers( "Independent, Train, Dynamic" )

EngineBrakesControllerDirectControlExponent( 1 )

 Coonskin, on 26 February 2016 - 03:46 AM, said:

Yesterday I had a short train of 8 cars. I intentionally stopped them stretched on a downgrade move requiring a stop. I looked at my watch, and released. From the time of release, to the time that I felt slack beginning to bump me was 45 seconds.

They were by no means recharged, just released.

That's with modern USA railroad equipment.

Mine do not fully release until the brakes have recharged, and it seems to gradually release in-synch with the building pressure in the reservoir.