[charland]

This is interesting... I just tried this again, and again the AI train came to a full stop. I thought I'd see if I could couple to the back end of the train and switch cabs and control the train from the lead cab, uncoupling my switcher from the back end.... you can do this in MSTS. After backing up my switcher the AI train decided to proceed through the switch onto the single track mainline.

Paul :-)

[copperpen]

OR has a problem because of the way things work. With the switch lined for the player, the player track authority extends through the switch and locks it against the AI train. The activity has to be constructed in a way that leaves the switch free until the player is ready to leave. Double reverse points or waiting point are the only way, apart from a popup advising the player to throw that switch.

[roeter]

None of that will help if the player train is in Manual mode!
Waiting points and all that are part of the train's path, but in manual mode the train is not on its path, or not using that info anyway, so they are no use in this situation.
There is no 'lock' on the manual mode area, and because of the switch position, that is causing the problem here.

Paul, the problem is that the player train is shunting in Manual mode. The system keeps a fixed length clear for shunt moves either side of the train. Because there are no signals, this clearing space stretches beyond the end of the siding. It has nothing to do with length the path of the AI train. I could go on for hundreds of miles - but that won't help because the switch is locked for the player train.
As you back up, that cleared area will move away with the engine, and at a certain point will be far enough away from that switch such that it is released for the AI train.

Regards,
Rob Roeterdink

[Coonskin]

Rob:

With the player train stopped near the switch that is stopping (lined against) the AI, can the switch be thrown for the AI and the AI will proceed?

Also: Can the "fixed length" be shortened within your code so that it is only a car length before/behind the player engine/train?

[roeter]

In manual mode, the switch can be thrown even when it is in the player's train path.
Throwing it against the player train will remove it from the train's path, and thus make it available for the AI train.

I'm not sure that to shorten the clearing section to just a very short distance from the train is always desirable.
If the path is that short, the logic will also not test the availability any further ahead - which means that such information cannot be shown in the track-monitor either. That could lead to some unpleasant surprises as the indication 'EndOfAuthority' suddenly shows up just a car lenght ahead of you. That could just be switch you forgot to align, but you won't get any advance warning of that if the path is that short.
It's really a no-win situation : in many situations you want to know in fair good time if the path is available, but in this situation you don't want to look that far ahead.

The real root of the problem in this situation is that there is no lock at the end of the yard.
It's really quite basic : two trains, train A and B, are approaching a common switch. The switch is aligned for train A. There is no indication that train A is to stop or reverse short of that switch. Why should the system decide the switch should be thrown and be allocated to train B? Remember that, in principle, all trains are treated equal.

Regards,
Rob Roeterdink

[roeter]

 charland, on 04 December 2014 - 11:28 AM, said:

Hi Rob,

This sort of thing is a problem with OR and not a problem with the route. it would effect just about every set-up for a meet in any siding where one train would have to hold the mail while bring passed by another.

In my case this is on a section of double track where in real life the yard crew would be able to switch a few industries well away from where the double track mainline becomes single track and there should be no problem with an AI train passing them, it's all in yard limits.

The line is over 60 miles long and goes back and forth from single to double track. One direction is superior, one side of the double track is dedicated as northbound, the other southbound. If someone wants to make an activity starting at the north end the switched are placed so the path automatically lines up with the proper tracks for a southbound train, same is true for setting up a northbound train. If I were to change out a few switches to correct this problem OR has with AI traffic, the paths would be wrong and someone would have to go through 60 some miles of track changing switches to 'take other exit'. I will be adding signals to the route when I get that far but what about routes like the DAR that have no signals (black territory), half the activities would come to a grinding halt because the meets screw up.

Paul :-)

Paul, the clue which you are missing here is that the player train is in manual mode.
When in manual mode, there is no check for stops or deadlocks.

In normal mode, a train is stopped either at a station or due to a waiting point, which will leave the track ahead clear for other trains. Further more, for normal controlled trains, the deadlock processing will ensure opposite trains can pass - with or without signals. Those passing paths can be fixed, or set as alternative paths.
But none of this will work with the player train in Manual mode, as the deadlock processing is then switched off. Station stops and waiting points also will not work as those are linked to the defined path, but in manual mode the train has no defined path.

Timetable mode has even more train control options, but those will also not work when the player train is in manual.

So it's just the rather unlucky situation of a player train in manual mode and a switch which default alignment happens to be in the player train's path.

Regards,
Rob Roeterdink

[Coonskin]

Hi Again Rob:

As for the way it is "as is": As long as the player can allow the AI to continue by throwing the needed switch, I think that would be a perfectly acceptable work-around for me personally.

As for shortening the player train "fixed length":

Speaking from a North American railroading perspective: I wouldn't see that as a bad thing for a non-signaled route in which proper reading of train orders/track warrants, watching the way switches are lined (in the yard and other wise), and other "real world" precautions should be observed? Not doing so in the "real world" can indeed result in dire consequences. An optional "click button" perhaps for a short "fixed length" for those so-inclined?