[James Ross]

gpz, on 05 March 2014 - 11:07 PM, said:

So the problem still remains, that MSTS Variable1 is about 2/3 "slower" than OpenRails' one. Probably it is 2/pi. If everyone agrees here, I commit a change today evening, adding a 2/pi multiplier to steam Variable1. And everyone can test then if it solves the issue. Is anyone against?

Having seen no data, I cannot just agree; have you set up a locomotive that uses Variable1 in a distinct manner and compared MSTS and OR? Have you tried changing things like the wheel diameter? I don't really mind you changing it but, unless you've done good research into MSTS behaviour, we're only going to be fiddling with it again in 6 months. (Such data should go in to a comment in the code.)

[gpz]

In a couple of test cases I could also reproduce this approximately 2/3 speed difference. The problem is, that the people can do the good MSTS research cannot make changes to OpenRails code, and vice versa. The point is to make possible to them to do the measurements. Otherwise we will stuck with current behaviour, which is not bad, just people will need to adjust .sms files to match this one. It would be like cutting the Gordian knot.

[James Ross]

gpz, on 06 March 2014 - 12:56 AM, said:

In a couple of test cases I could also reproduce this approximately 2/3 speed difference. The problem is, that the people can do the good MSTS research cannot make changes to OpenRails code, and vice versa. The point is to make possible to them to do the measurements. Otherwise we will stuck with current behaviour, which is not bad, just people will need to adjust .sms files to match this one.

There's no particular reason why the people doing the testing need to make changes to OR; they only need to decipher enough of how it works in MSTS and how OR is not matching that for someone else to make the change. Just go and make whatever change it is you think will help and let's hope enough people test it. :sign_thanks:

[rdamurphy]

James Ross, on 05 March 2014 - 02:41 PM, said:

Please can uyou use the correct conversion routines (e.g. MpS.ToKpH) and not hard-code random constants into the code, thanks. :sign_thanks:

Thanks for the heads up! I'm an old time VB guy, much less OO than C#. :blush2:

I'll fix it when I get home in the morning...

Robert

[rdamurphy]

You might want to check to see if the variable1 parameter is being read from the SMS file correctly. I can check that in the morning if you'd like. I'm not sure what effect that will have on your steam locomotive code however.

Robert

[gpz]

Robert, could you please look on this thread as well, please: http://www.elvastowe...ch-curve-since/
Looks like the issue was caused by the recent mods.

[ATSF3751]

I would be willing to make changes to my SMS files for it to work in Open Rails it will just take some time to adjust all of my sound sets! Since everyone is starting to go Open Rails now I might as well start making my sound sets to work with Open Rails instead of MSTS. I can monkey around with one of my sound sets and see how it turns out!

Brandon

[rdamurphy]

Here's the problem we're going to run into, gentlemen. As James pointed out to me, this should work the same in OR as it does in MSTS. And he's correct, I can't disagree.

And, as James points out it should be fixed correctly, now, so we're not revisiting this in six months again...

So, in order to do that, every sound parameter based on VariableTriggers is current set to MPS. But the MSTS files define it as kph.

To make the corrections, we would need to correct ALL of them, not just the two I've corrected - if that's the consensus, I can do that, but I don't want to do that if we're not in agreement on it. But if I understand what James is saying is that we SHOULD go ahead and make the corrections, which I will do, however, since I'm not familiar with the sound classes it may take a couple of days and a couple of versions, so if we want to do that James, we probably need to not do the usual X version today or tomorrow until it's done and tested.

Perhaps you could do the current X Version based on 2079 instead?

Comments?

Robert

[James Ross]

rdamurphy, on 06 March 2014 - 09:24 AM, said:

To make the corrections, we would need to correct ALL of them, not just the two I've corrected - if that's the consensus, I can do that, but I don't want to do that if we're not in agreement on it. But if I understand what James is saying is that we SHOULD go ahead and make the corrections, which I will do, however, since I'm not familiar with the sound classes it may take a couple of days and a couple of versions, so if we want to do that James, we probably need to not do the usual X version today or tomorrow until it's done and tested.

Perhaps you could do the current X Version based on 2079 instead?

I, personally, don't think it matters. Open Rails is a work in progress and the weekly experimental releases even more so. I will actually be away for the weekend from tomorrow morning, so if you really want to avoid the automatic build this week let me know in the next 12 hours and I'll temporarily disable it. I don't think it's necessary, but I'm happy to do it if you ask.

[rdamurphy]

No, I think we're good now. I reverted the changes for now, and I'll work through it this weekend to find all of the changes that need to be made so the conversions are done properly. Apparently, there were far more of them than I anticipated...

Robert

[gpz]

rdamurphy, on 06 March 2014 - 09:24 AM, said:

So, in order to do that, every sound parameter based on VariableTriggers is current set to MPS. But the MSTS files define it as kph. To make the corrections, we would need to correct ALL of them, not just the two I've corrected

Robert, wait please, not so fast.

First of all, none of the sound variables (except speed) contain distance units in their definitions. So this conversion doesn't affect any of them.
The second thing is, I am not sure your modification was correct for speed variable. Do you have any reference saying it is in km/h? Everywhere I read it it is stated the value in m/s, and not km/h. Also, Carlo, who is the most experienced person among us regarding the sound, at least in one of his posts here on ET states, that the value is in m/s. See: http://www.elvastowe...post__p__140934

(Unfortunately Carlo might be unavailable for some more days to confirm it.)

[ATSF3751]

So your saying Robert that MSTS is in KPH and Open Rails is set in Miles Per Hour? If thats the case I honestly think we could keep it MPH and all we would all have to do is change our SMS files for steam locomotives. Yes it will be time consuming but why change another thing in Open Rails if we can just change the SMS Files to work with Open Rails? Its not all that hard to do and I have already started doing it to a couple of my locomotives and it works just fine after I do some trial and error. I say you guys put your time into some other things that are more important in the game and I can find ways around the small issue. As I said earlier I have no issue working around it and modifying my SMS files. I know not everyone knows how to do that but I could release my files when I get them all done so people dont have to worry about it. I say if its easy to fix the issue I say go ahead and do it if you guys want but it might just be easier for everyone to fix the SMS files to work with Open Rails.

Brandon

[gpz]

Speed sound variable was never in miles per hour. It was meters per second (m/s), then Robert changed it to km/h, and then changed back to m/s.
This trainsim.com comment also says it is in meters per second.

Other variables (Variable1, 2, 3) are not affected by this issue.

[rdamurphy]

gpz, on 06 March 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

Speed sound variable was never in miles per hour. It was meters per second (m/s), then Robert changed it to km/h, and then changed back to m/s.
This trainsim.com comment also says it is in meters per second.

Other variables (Variable1, 2, 3) are not affected by this issue.

Exactly right. It will take some digging to get all of the parameters for the VariableTriggers to be changed over to work properly in kmh, I plan on doing that work this weekend, but it may take a few days. The other Variables will need to be adjusted in the various files they're used in, since it seems they're used in completely different ways in both the Steam locomotive and Diesel locomotive files (where they're adjusted by throttle settings for the engine sounds.)

Adjusting the VariableTriggers won't change them.

However, as James pointed out, this needs to be done to insure backwards compatibility with MSTS.

Robert

[gpz]

rdamurphy, on 06 March 2014 - 05:47 PM, said:

It will take some digging to get all of the parameters for the VariableTriggers to be changed over to work properly in kmh, I plan on doing that work this weekend, but it may take a few days.

Robert, I wrote many times, that the variable triggers don't use either meters, miles or kilometers, except the speed variable. Neither in diesel, nor in electric or steam locomotives. NOWHERE. The closest thing to this is the Varible1 for the steam locomotive, but that is also an angular speed, not a linear, and thus doesn't affected by any m/s to km/h conversions. And also the speed variable is exactly right in meters per second, doesn't need to be changed to km/h.

And you are continuously writing that you want to change something in these. WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!?!?!? Are you in write-only mode, or what?