Elvas Tower: Changes to MP signalling and Train Control - Elvas Tower

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Changes to MP signalling and Train Control First phase now committed Rate Topic: -----

#31 Inactive_Jefe del CTC_*

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 02:47 PM

View PostGuille592, on 25 December 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

Didn't saw your message but thinking the same here, I think it would be more usefull if we had colours. Cause I still didn't understood the new signalling system wich I think it's really awesome but the old one (Stop, approach, proceed) was very simple and very effective. It is well known that we have several signal systems all around the world, but adding colours to the dispatcher, to my personal oppinion, it would just nail it. If not possible, I would make the menu to look like the image below. This, would be for a manual mode just in case we couldn't control the automatic one. This manual menu, would follow the script we can actually find in the signals as is shown on the "sigcfg.dat" & "sigcfg.dat" files.

;)


Well I can agree to all said above. The new signaling system on Multiplayer is not 100% compatible with most real signaling systems. I say the same as Guille592, it would be ok and practical the "Stop, approach, proceed" we we're used to.

Thanks for your time and work.

Cheers.

#32 User is offline   APK-LVDZ 

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 07:39 PM

For first, my opinion: need to make full support of MSTS-signal scripting, and then make this more better. We will test all signal scripts, and then, if all works normally, will be easier to find new bugs.

#33 Inactive_Jefe del CTC_*

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 06:13 AM

View PostAPK-LVDZ, on 25 December 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

For first, my opinion: need to make full support of MSTS-signal scripting, and then make this more better. We will test all signal scripts, and then, if all works normally, will be easier to find new bugs.


That's a really good idea too.

#34 User is offline   Csantucci 

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 06:16 AM

MSTS signal scripting seems to me already supported. What is still missing that can't be easily bypassed?

#35 User is offline   James Ross 

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 07:18 AM

View PostCsantucci, on 26 December 2013 - 06:16 AM, said:

MSTS signal scripting seems to me already supported. What is still missing that can't be easily bypassed?


There's certainly a variety of parsing issues outstanding with sigscr, but I don't know if anyone's working on them.

#36 User is offline   roeter 

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 02:49 AM

Replies to some of the points raised above.

  • Colors.
    Separate colors for the various aspects will become available at a later stage.
    The intention is to make these into settings, but decisions will have to be made if these settings are user or route related, and also where to store these settings.

  • Clearing signals.
    I am very surprised by some comments above which claim the present signal control is unrealistic, and then suggest to make it possible to set a signal to the required aspect. Now, that is as unrealistic as you can get it.
    I have quite a few signalling simulations (and am actively involved in the development of one such simulation), but there isn't a single system where such a control is possible. A signal is always simply cleared, and the actual aspect (often not even shown to the controller!) is determined by the signal logic.
    One exception in some systems is the ability to override some signal logic which will set a special aspect, e.g. to give access to occupied track. That is something that could be implemented at a later stage.

  • Signal script.
    There are no major outstanding issues regarding the parsing of the sigscr.dat file. However, the support is limited to the general rules as defined in the MSTS documentation. Some sigscr.dat builders have far exceeded these rules by using all kind of C-like statements. Whereas MSTS could (probably) fall back on full singing and dancing C-compilers to parse the script and therefor can process such statements, the script-parser for OR had to be build from scratch and is therefor more limited. Certain C-like constructions well beyond the original definition (like the use of ++, -- etc.) are therefor not supported.
    Quite another point here, and I think that is where APK-LVDZ is referring to, is the specific use of aspects, and in particular the use of STOP_AND_PROCEED as main "stop" aspect instead of STOP. That is quite a different issue and has nothing to do with parsing of sigscr.dat file. For various reasons, signal systems which are set up along that line do not work correctly at the moment; it's on the list of things to do but I can only do one thing at the time. To get a single system for both single-player and multi-player signalling is clearly a prime objective before any other changes can be made.


One final remark.
Part of the complexity of the controls is due to the fact that distinction has to be made between 'pathed' and 'unpathed' trains. This is because MP players have indicated they do not want to run pathed trains. Now, in my view, that is unrealistic to start with - drivers don't get to the depot and then start thinking : "what train shall I take today and where shall I take it?".
When they arrive, they are given a train with a destination, route and timetable.
So, all trains should be pathed trains (with timetable), and dispatchers should take control of a limited area (e.g. yard or station) where they control all points and signals, and guide the trains through that area, according to their path and timetable.
As the number of dispatchers is limited, and it's unlikely that all locations can be worked like that, some areas will be controlled by the system - which it can do as all trains are 'pathed' and the system knows where they have to go.
But, that is not how MP players want to run their trains. So the controls had to be adapted to reflect that, and the system now implemented is a compromise. The distinction between 'pathed' and 'unpathed' trains is made to avoid 'unpathed' trains to go where they do not want to go, and yet at the same time limit the load for the dispatcher by letting the 'pathed' trains find their own way.

Regards,
Rob Roeterdink

#37 User is offline   JorD1 

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 03:27 AM

I hardly doubt if the new system is working for the more casual users. I cancelled my MP games becasue it seems I need a PhD to actually get something working in the dispatch window. :lol2:

Probably the new system will make a lot less users use the MP functions. Most users I know which use Openrails use it just for casual to drive with friends.

I know this is the way OR wants to go, but the interface of the dispatch window is just to complicated now.

(I think this might a dead end for the OR MP function and it's less hardcore userbase (those who mostly aren't active on forums), it's just too complicated.)

#38 User is offline   roeter 

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Posted 27 December 2013 - 04:26 AM

Can you be a bit more specific of the problem you encountered?
Also - if you take just one or two minutes to look at the new menus, you'll see that all the 'old' functions are still there : switch : system, main or side route; signal : system, hold or clear. Only other functions have been added - but if you don't want to use those, you can just ignore them.

Regards,
Rob Roeterdink

#39 User is offline   roeter 

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 05:30 AM

In Version X1910, the MP signalling and control has been restored to the state of X1888, that is the last state before the attempted introduction of the new control.
The required changes proved much more complex that I had anticipated. I thought it could be done building on the present control, but the required changes need a much more thorough rebuild of the whole setup and this will take too much time.
There is no estimate of when any new updates of MP signalling and control might be introduced.

Regards,
Rob Roeterdink

#40 User is offline   markus_GE 

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Posted 30 December 2013 - 05:49 AM

Does that mean, the solution to the loop problem I reported is also postponed / the partial solution already introduce is cancelled again?

Yours, Markus

EDIT: Should have had a look at the other items on my "View new content" list first. :dance3:

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