[edwardk]

I was just checking the code. When a diesel locomotive is part of a player train, it is part of a initializing process, but when placed as a static object, there is no initializing process. This shows in the max exhaust being displayed.

Edward K.

[railguy]

^That would likely also cause the loose consist locomotive sound never to initialize, either.

[R H Steele]

railguy could you post the exact name and source of the locomotives that are exhibiting this behavior? I'd like to see if I have them, if not, get them and try something out.
I'm still puzzled why it affects some engines in loose consists and not others.

Quoting from Edward K "I was just checking the code. When a diesel locomotive is part of a player train, it is part of a initializing process, but when placed as a static object, there is no initializing process. This shows in the max exhaust being displayed."

It would seem to follow that any engine used in a loose consist would exhbiti this behavior, or am I missing something?

[railguy]

^I have tried numerous locomotives, both freeware and payware, and they all exhibit the loose consist behavior. The specific locomotives that I used for my example are the DieselsWest BNSF Dash 9 and the DieselsWest BN/BNSF SD70MAC. SLI and Maple Leaf Tracks locos do it too, as does every freeware locomotive that I've tried. Note that all of them are American diesels, but I can't imagine that non-US diesels would behave any differently. So, yes, I think the issue is universal to all loose consist diesels. The exception might be the rare case when the Initial and Max Magnitude and Rate values are so close to the same that they would look visually alike.

I am attaching two screenshots that illustrate what I'm talking about. "Uncoupled" was taken before I coupled my player locomotive (BNSF 1760) to a loose consist of two locomotives (both DieselsWest GE locomotives). Note the smoke from them--full throttle. "Coupled" was taken after I coupled the player locomotive to them. No smoke--they are at idle. The sounds were absent on the loose consist before I coupled to it; after coupling, voila!--sound. As to the loose consist in the background--I coupled to it before I coupled to the two locos in the screenshot. Those locos were smoking like crazy before I coupled to them, notice that they aren't in the screenshots. They were also silent until I coupled to them; once coupled the sounds on them started.

[R H Steele]

railguy, on 05 February 2015 - 04:26 PM, said:

The exception might be the rare case when the Initial and Max Magnitude and Rate values are so close to the same that they would look visually alike.

That may be what I'm missing. Thanks for the screenshots and the engine information. When I get some time, I'm going to look at this.

[Eldorado.Railroad]

From 05 February 2015 - 02:12 PM:

I was just checking the code. When a diesel locomotive is part of a player train, it is part of a initializing process, but when placed as a static object, there is no initializing process. This shows in the max exhaust being displayed.

Edward,

I am glad you spotted this. Gratefully, you are one of the devs that picks up on the orphaned bugs. I hope, like the creeping alpha problem you solved some months back you are willing to take a look at this one and arrive at a way to solve it. The user can cheat the system partially by making the loose consist with a "dead engine, which is really a wagon" not emit particles. It would be nicer if a loose consist with an active engine would not run at max exhaust. I have noticed this many times since being brought to my attention by "railguy". Sadly I have my fingers in many pots, and testing one thing leads to finding bugs elsewhere.

Thanks,

Steve

[railguy]

^I've sometimes used the "dead engine" method to eliminate the smoking problem with a loose consist. In a number of my or others' activities, though, loose consist locomotives don't stay loose consist locomotives, they will eventually be picked up by a player train. I would hope that, someday, the activity designer could specify the status of loose consist locomotives at the beginning of an activity--as in not running, idling, or (even more neat for modern diesel locomotives) in Automated Engine Shutown and Startup (AESS) mode--the latter being where the locomotive can start, vary idle RPM, or shut down the prime mover based on various locomotive and environmental parameters. Now, that would be something.

[edwardk]

Eldorado.Railroad, on 06 February 2015 - 08:39 PM, said:

Edward,

I am glad you spotted this. Gratefully, you are one of the devs that picks up on the orphaned bugs. I hope, like the creeping alpha problem you solved some months back you are willing to take a look at this one and arrive at a way to solve it. The user can cheat the system partially by making the loose consist with a "dead engine, which is really a wagon" not emit particles. It would be nicer if a loose consist with an active engine would not run at max exhaust. I have noticed this many times since being brought to my attention by "railguy". Sadly I have my fingers in many pots, and testing one thing leads to finding bugs elsewhere.

Thanks,

Steve

I am attempting to understand the process. It appears that any locomotive that is part of the player train(key point) will be part of the DieselEngines Initialize process, but diesel locomotives that are part of the loose consist category are never included. Keep in mind that before the DieselEngines process was implemented, the player train was the same way so I just have to figure out how to include static locomotives.

Edward K.

[edwardk]

Please check V2851. For all static diesel locomotives, I set ExhaustParticles to 0 since the locomotive is suppose to be shutdown. At this time it would be bit more difficult to have a number of static locomotives with the exhaust indicating as running and shutdown.

Edward K.

[Eldorado.Railroad]

edwardk, on 09 February 2015 - 12:07 AM, said:

Please check V2851. For all static diesel locomotives, I set ExhaustParticles to 0 since the locomotive is suppose to be shutdown. At this time it would be bit more difficult to have a number of static locomotives with the exhaust indicating as running and shutdown.

Edward,

I will give this a try later tonight, I just hope that a wait point bug (another recent thread with Rob Roeter at the helm!) will not clobber my test activities. Big thanks for your effort on this bug.

Could you explain exactly what is mean't by this (maybe a an example consist?):
"At this time it would be bit more difficult to have a number of static locomotives with the exhaust indicating as running and shutdown."

Steve

[railguy]

Setting the loose locomotive particles to zero certainly beats the way that it was. I just looked and the loose consist locos are no longer pouring out smoke. That said, I hope that this will be considered only a temporary solution. Loose consist locomotives are still not emitting sound until they are coupled up to a player train. In the US, at least, prototype diesel locomotives are almost never shut down if outside ambient temperatures are below freezing. Even with AESS, locomotives will often have to start up and idle at any outside temperature if any one of a number of other operating parameters (main reservoir air pressure, engine temperature, etc.) fall out of an acceptable range. So, having loose consist locomotives dead and quiet is not prototypical most of the time.

Thanks to you for at least solving the full throttle loose consist smoke problem for the time being. Better to have no smoke than a supposedly idling locomotive looking like it's at full throttle.

[gpz]

A temporary solution usually lessens the chance that someone will feel necessary in the future to develop a proper one.

[edwardk]

The question of the day is what fix is proper? If you check MSTS, you will find that the loose locomotives are the same way. They become active when the player train attaches to them so in this sense, the fix is proper. Looking ahead is another manner. To set up an activity so that you can decide what locomotive will be running and what won't will require more items to be in place. This of course leads to the question of what is prototypical. For as many locomotives that are left running, there will be just as many that will not be running so if I was able to set them up to run, all would have to run.

Edward K.

[edwardk]

Eldorado.Railroad, on 09 February 2015 - 03:19 PM, said:

Edward,

I will give this a try later tonight, I just hope that a wait point bug (another recent thread with Rob Roeter at the helm!) will not clobber my test activities. Big thanks for your effort on this bug.

Could you explain exactly what is mean't by this (maybe a an example consist?):
"At this time it would be bit more difficult to have a number of static locomotives with the exhaust indicating as running and shutdown."

Steve

Steve,

The fix right now is actually the way MSTS works. The static locomotives become active when the player train attaches to them. Unfortunately, if I was able to set them up to run, all would have to run. To choose what will run and what won't is the future of OR since this is something that could be set up via a new and improved activity editor.

Edward K.

[gpz]

I'm not saying the solution is temporary, just it came down from your words. :thumbup3: Maybe the definition for the "proper handling" could be that the existing state variables in the code set properly, to reflect the real state, otherwise the future developer may not know why his code doesn't work. I'm just speaking without checking the actual patch, so no offense intended.