[Avo]

Hello experts at *.eng-files!

What parameters I need to change to correct the maximum brake pressure in the brake cylinders (BC)?

Thanks for help!
avo

[Lindsayts]

Avo, on 08 July 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

Hello experts at *.eng-files!

What parameters I need to change to correct the maximum brake pressure in the brake cylinders (BC)?

Thanks for help!
avo

The are two parameters controlling MSTS's max brakeforce....

BrakeCylinderPressureForMaxBrakeBrakeForce ( 50psi )

MaxBrakeForce ( 40kn )

In MSTS the braking is quite simple MaxBrakeForce is the max retarding force the brakes can produce on the particular vehicle. The BrakeCylinder parameter is the cylinder pressure required to produce this force, the second varies in proportion to the former.

One has to take care here more than a few loco details published give a max brake force figure which is the TOTAL cylinder pressure ALL the brake cylinders on the vehicle can produce. This can readily be detected as this figure is around 60% of the vehicles weight. This figure being a standard brake spec on DE loco's from the US.

I have seen loco's for MSTS using this figure for MaxBrakeForce. A reasonable figure to use here is around 10% of the total weight on the braked wheels.

Lindsay

[Avo]

Changing the two values does not affect the simulation.
I want to correct the pressure of the Air Brake Main Pipe on 3.5, when the handle is on suppression.

avo

Attached thumbnail(s)

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[Lindsayts]

Brake setup in MSTS/OR is quite complex and I have yet to figure out all angles (a project I must get onto soon), below is the set up for a railcar with a main resiviour pressure of 110psi and a line pressure of 70psi.

Note both,

TrainBrakesControllerMaxSystemPressure ( 70 )
TrainBrakesControllerFullServicePressureDrop ( 26 )

I do not know if either MSTS or OR honours the FullServicePressureDrop parameter.


Start eng brake section eng file....................

AirBrakesAirCompressorPowerRating ( 5 )
AirBrakesMainMinResAirPressure ( 70 )
AirBrakesMainMaxAirPressure ( 110 )
AirBrakesMainResVolume ( 5 )
AirBrakesAirCompressorWattage ( 19000 )
AirBrakesCompressorRestartPressure( 105 )

AirBrakesAirUsedPerPoundsOfBrakePipePressure ( 1 )
AirBrakesHasLowPressureTest ( 1 )
AirBrakesIsCompressorElectricOrMechanical ( 0 )

TrainBrakesControllerMaxApplicationRate ( 4.5 )
TrainBrakesControllerMaxReleaseRate ( 40 )
TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyApplicationRate ( 5 )
TrainBrakesControllerMinSystemPressure ( 0 )
TrainBrakesControllerMaxSystemPressure ( 70 )
TrainBrakesControllerEmergencyBrakeTimePenalty ( 0 )
TrainBrakesControllerFullServicePressureDrop ( 26 )

End eng file exerpt..........................................


Its definitly possible to get the brakes working properly in OR unfortunately there is a large number of parameters to tweak and I have been putting off an investigation in this now for way to long.

BTW, what is the loco and route used in the above snapshot, I have driven this cabview I am not though familiar enough of European loco's to recognise them straight off. The cabviews are done so nicely, a fine clear photo used in the cabview. I will give it a try an see what the problem is.

Lindsay

[Lindsayts]

A point of some significance is I have yet to see a decent explanation of what the supression position does, so I cannot say how the sim handles this position at all.

Neither the 1926 or the 1941 editions of the Locomotive Cyclopedia ,mentions it all in either the 90 page term definition section or the ARA loco operating rules. The only mention in the GP40's operating manual is in a table of brake positions, it saying its used on the second engine of a double header.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, finally found a decent reference in the New York Air Brake Corporations handbook on the 26L brake equipment.

"Surpression position

This position is located against the second raised portion of the quadrant to the right of the Release position. As well as providing a full service brake aplication as with the brake valve handle in sevice position, supression of both overspeed control and Safety control application is obtained."

So essentailly its the service position with supression of the loco's safety features.

Lindsay

[ATW]

May these new OR eng parameters may be of a help as a template from one of my US experimental GEVO AC motors? Just copy and paste at the end of eng file under Name ("").

AirBrakeMainresvolume ( 10.2 )
MainResChargingRate ( 3.1 )
BrakePipeChargingRate ( 30 )
EngineBrakeReleaseRate ( 38 )
EngineBrakeApplicationRate ( 34 )
BrakePipeTimeFactor ( 0.000323 )
BrakeServiceTimeFactor ( 1.46 )
BrakeEmergencyTimeFactor ( .15 )

ContinuousForceTimeFactor( 2000000 )

[dennisat]

Lindsayts, on 09 July 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

TrainBrakesControllerFullServicePressureDrop ( 26 )

I do not know if either MSTS or OR honours the FullServicePressureDrop parameter.

From purely trial and error I've found that FullServicePressureDrop seems to be used for "EP_Brake" systems in OR. The lower the figure for FullServicePressureDrop, the lower the maximum brake cylinder pressure. This does not seem to affect the MSTS brake performance. I've increased the value for FullServicePressureDrop to at least 70 on most of my "EP_Brake" stock because otherwise you hardly get any effective braking at all in OR.

Dennis

[Avo]

Thank you all!
I could benefit from your experience. My problem is solved. The correction must be made to Engine/TrainBrakesControllerFullServicePressureDrop. The engine responds perfectly now!
(Screenshot in post 3: Route: Gotthard 1; Loc.: SBB_Re 6/6.)

avo

[gpz]

I see that wagon's TripleValve goes to emergency state in a weird way: There is a section in Brakes.cs

if (BrakeLine1PressurePSI < AuxResPressurePSI - 10)
    TripleValveState = ValveState.Emergency;

This makes impossible to apply the brakes as in real life for vehicles in my country, and probably in the rest of the world too. Instead it should be something like

if (BrakeLine1PressurePSI < TrainBrakesControllerMaxSystemPressure - TrainBrakesControllerFullServicePressureDrop)
    TripleValveState = ValveState.Emergency;

This section was modified more than 3 years ago by dajones. Question to the lead developers: Do we have a brake system maintainer currently, or I can start modifying the code?

[Genma Saotome]

Doug is still around doing things but doesn't make a verbal appearance too often. Perhaps a PM will get a quick reply.