[wacampbell]

We are doing some planning toward more accurate operations on open rails.

On a North American railroad that operates on a Timetable/Train Order control system. How does it work when a train arrives at its destination yard. Does his train orders tell him which yard track to use, and where to put the caboose and where to tie up the loco. Or does the train stop somewhere for these instructions?

[charland]

Hi Again,

The arriving train would normally call the Yard Master for instructions, what track or tracks to yard their train in, where to place they caboose and power. This is also true for areas under CTC, the Yard Master is the man to talk to. The Yard Master would also have to call the local yard crew to let them know the mainline train is coming into the yard and to make sure they are clear of the tracks required for the move... if they are at that end of the yard they may be nice enough to get the switches while they wait.

In MSTS you would pretty much have to write out these instructions in your work order.

Paul :-)

[wacampbell]

charland, on 09 October 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

The arriving train would normally call the Yard Master for instructions,

Thanks. What about before the trains had radios?

And I wonder would the instructions be very specific - ie take the caboose to a certain place, or use track xy to take the loco to location z etc. Or is it just assumed the crews know what to do?

[charland]

Hi Wayne,

Not old enough to have seen pre-radio railroading, but my guess would be orders hooped to the head end and tail end by an operator.

Here in Brockville as trains were about to arrive they would call for instructions and get something along the lines of "yard you train in KF-62 and your power in the run-around"... if the train was really long they would be given a track to double into. They didn't normally take their van off, they yard crew did whatever work needed to be done and used the same van for the outbound train.

In Smiths Falls they would have taken their van off, the tower would have told them what track(s) to yard their train in and then were told to take their power and van to the shops. There was a caboose track and and that's where they were to leave their van for servicing, and an arrival track to leave their power. All the years I railfanned around the Falls it was always just a track number or two and "power to the shop", the rest was implied!

Paul :-)

[Genma Saotome]

Dispatchers controlled the movement of trains over the mainline; Yard masters controlled the movement of trains within yard limits. Trains didn't leave yard limits w/o the permission of the dispatcher and they didn't enter yard limits w/o the permission of the yardmaster.

As the yardmaster had many other duties to perform I rather doubt he was on the phone/radio with train crews all of the time; more likely he told dispatchers what he had reserved for specific inbound trains and the dispatchers simply repeated it to the crews -- or he had a clerk at the yard perform the same communications. Either way, the Yardmaster was still responsible. I'd also hazard a guess that when the train got close enough to enter what we think of as The Yard the crew they'd stop and call the Yardmaster for final instructions. The decision of which track to take was then made based on what was actually going on at the moment.

On the crew side of the equation, it probably didn't matter who they talked to or by what means were the instructions given. Their job was to do what they were told to do, no more, no less.

Just to make sure it gets complex, yard limits can extend beyond the boundaries we think of as "The Yard". 60 years ago on the Cal-P the Oakland Yard limit extended north to Richmond, about a dozen miles. A short distance further down the line, another yard limit for Port Costa ran the length of the run along the Sacramento River, about 40 miles. The entire distance was under CTC.

FWIW, if you ever find a copy of "Let's Operate a Railroad", by Roxbury, buy it. It is the Steam Era "How-to" guide. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED.

[pnrailway]

I have also seen before radio was common on all railroads that the dispatcher would bring a train to a stop out on the main with a red signal. There by the last signal before the yard was a phone that the head end breakman would use to call the yardmaster to find out which track they were headed for once they got a green board.

[pnrailway]

nyc01, on 09 October 2012 - 12:12 PM, said:

The dispatcher is usually required (where I worked it was a requirement) to give the yard master a time figure on a trains arrival at a terminal so that the yardmaster can prepare for it and obviously find a place to put the train.

If a train is going into the yard/terminal (other than main track) the best signal that train is going to get is a restricting at the last control point/interlocking entering the yard/terminal, that's usually the point at which the crew contacts the yardmaster for yarding instructions.

What I was getting at, and this was when I was a kid in the early 50's, a train may be held at the last signal before the yard while the yard crew was clearing a spot for the inbound train on the arrival track. I would see the head end brakeman go over to the phone that was on a pole near the signal and make a call. When the signal cleared the train headed into the yard to the track assigned to it with the breakeman aligning the route as it went, (this was a yard for a line where ALL switches were manual).

[CGW121]

pnrailway, on 09 October 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

What I was getting at, and this was when I was a kid in the early 50's, a train may be held at the last signal before the yard while the yard crew was clearing a spot for the inbound train on the arrival track. I would see the head end brakeman go over to the phone that was on a pole near the signal and make a call. When the signal cleared the train headed into the yard to the track assigned to it with the breakeman aligning the route as it went, (this was a yard for a line where ALL switches were manual).

That was the process on the CGW as well. The phone booth was often a concrete structure with 6 or 8 sides. It would be nice to have the random track option.